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Old 11-11-2018, 08:29 AM   #1
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Aqua Hot Nominal Operation - Fuel consumption - Sequence

It is approaching winter and I personally experienced 27 degree night temperatures up here in Pennsylvania for the first time this winter. Every winter, I dig out an old thread that describes general/normal Aqua Hot 450D operation, typical cycles, cycle length at certain outside temperatures, diesel burn rates, etc. etc. that we put together back in 2015. I have edited out some off-topic posts in that thread to keep the ones that dealt with Aqua Hot performance..

It might be a useful read for others who are getting ready for winter travel and have not previousy read through this information to have as a reminder.

NOTES: My memory is that my math on the third post was wrong and estimated much higher fuel consumption than is true over a 24 hour period. I will re-do the math later and update this post.

Also, VoltDoc has now published a thread that documents a metering service which lets him actually know how many hours their AquaHot is actually running.

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Old 11-12-2018, 06:33 PM   #2
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Thanks Gary - Great information!

Our AH seems to be working less efficiently than it should.

We were in Indiana last week. Of course we hit the first really cold weather of the season! We went from Shipshewana to Greenfield east of Indy.
Aquahot serviced by NIRVC in August.

Night 1: 27 Degrees.
Cold in Bedroom with minimal airflow from register and not very warm air at that. BR floor never warmed up at all. Stool room was VERY cold. Air flow from the window was cold and the TP was fluttering!
Front of coach was OK but floor wasnít very warm Ė even after 12+ hours of Diesel AH.
No heat pumps of course at that temp.
Set all thermostats at 74. BR never got above 64 and AH ran pretty much all night.

Night 2: 21 Degrees
Same but worse all the way around. Reset 12V in the morning and airflow improved in the BR somewhat.
Ran fireplace all night. Left all doors open other than stool room.

Night 3: 38 Degrees (Knoxville)
Better but still floors are cold in BR and only warm in other areas.
Set all thermostats at 71. BR never got above 68 and AH ran most of the night.

Of course it happens on the weekend! How do these devices knwo when the weekend hits?

Any suggestions on what to look for would be much appreciated.
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:39 PM   #3
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Emerson and Cheryl:

Well, I owned a 2015 with a 450D and now a 2019 Cornerstone and you own a 2018 but I'll bet they are all the same.

The easy one is the mid-bath bathroom. There is no AquaHeat radiator/heater in the mid-bath. There is a vent, but that vent is in there to let cold air which come in under the door in through the vent and then is blown by the fan over the AquaHot "radiator" to heat the air which then blows nice and warm into the living room by the refrigerator. There is also a "forced air radiator system" under the dash and the kitchen sink. However, no warm air radiator system in the mid bath. Now, in my 19, there IS a ceiling vent in the mid bath which is a part of the heat pump/air conditioning system so you get lots of warm air in the bathroom when using the roof heat pumps. So, heat pump = warm bathroom..but.. AquaHot heat = cold bathroom.

Now, my bedroom and the aft bath in this 45B is normally cooler than the living room. There are only 2 "radiator vents" in my coach (that I know of). One is in the wall between the bedroom and the aft bathroom and the other one under the master bathroom vanity cabinetry. Those two don't heat as well as the three in the living room. However, I think that part of the issue is that the heat "radiator" in the bedroom is directly under the thermostat (mounted on the wall about 5' high). So, warm air from the "radiator" rises and heats that area, and I think, then turns off the heat'radiator prematurely. So, my hypothesis is that the heat sensor is improperly placed. I would suggest cranking up the heat even further.... it may come on a lot more times, but it should warm up the room.

And my floor is not particularly warm ever. Now, again, I am a owner that is still touring in my coach.... I am not a person that goes to one place, sets up, and stays there for long periods of time. So, I am rarely in one park more than 3 ro 4 days, and then it all gets shut down and we move to another place. Owners on here talk about it working well and being real nice. They may use their coaches differently. I have never felt that. I believe that it takes 24 hours or multiples of that to get the floor nice and warm.... and I don't do that.

Gary
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
Emerson and Cheryl:

Well, I owned a 2015 with a 450D and now a 2019 Cornerstone and you own a 2018 but I'll bet they are all the same.

The easy one is the mid-bath bathroom. There is no AquaHeat radiator/heater in the mid-bath. There is a vent, but that vent is in there to let cold air which come in under the door in through the vent and then is blown by the fan over the AquaHot "radiator" to heat the air which then blows nice and warm into the living room by the refrigerator. There is also a "forced air radiator system" under the dash and the kitchen sink. However, no warm air radiator system in the mid bath. Now, in my 19, there IS a ceiling vent in the mid bath which is a part of the heat pump/air conditioning system so you get lots of warm air in the bathroom when using the roof heat pumps. So, heat pump = warm bathroom..but.. AquaHot heat = cold bathroom.

Now, my bedroom and the aft bath in this 45B is normally cooler than the living room. There are only 2 "radiator vents" in my coach (that I know of). One is in the wall between the bedroom and the aft bathroom and the other one under the master bathroom vanity cabinetry. Those two don't heat as well as the three in the living room. However, I think that part of the issue is that the heat "radiator" in the bedroom is directly under the thermostat (mounted on the wall about 5' high). So, warm air from the "radiator" rises and heats that area, and I think, then turns off the heat'radiator prematurely. So, my hypothesis is that the heat sensor is improperly placed. I would suggest cranking up the heat even further.... it may come on a lot more times, but it should warm up the room.

And my floor is not particularly warm ever. Now, again, I am a owner that is still touring in my coach.... I am not a person that goes to one place, sets up, and stays there for long periods of time. So, I am rarely in one park more than 3 ro 4 days, and then it all gets shut down and we move to another place. Owners on here talk about it working well and being real nice. They may use their coaches differently. I have never felt that. I believe that it takes 24 hours or multiples of that to get the floor nice and warm.... and I don't do that.

Gary
Gary,

There is a radiator in the mid bath on my 19 Anthem. The 12v for the blower motors is not connected, but there is a radiator there. According to Entegra it would get very hot in the mid bath if the fans were to run. See attached photo from underneath the mid bath cabinet floor. I wonder if you have one as well?

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Old 11-12-2018, 09:16 PM   #5
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I've never looked in, but it have never worked and it never worked in my Anthem.

If you have one, you could certainly wire in a switch, it would seem and control it manually.

Gary
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:38 AM   #6
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I've never looked in, but it have never worked and it never worked in my Anthem.

If you have one, you could certainly wire in a switch, it would seem and control it manually.

Gary

I was thinking the same thing. I haven't decided if I am going to wire both fan motors or just 1. If I do both, I will use 2 switches so that I can operate one motor so that I do not roast the mid bath.



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Old 11-13-2018, 06:34 AM   #7
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Thanks for the feedback. In our Y, there is a vent under the washer dryer door and it was putting out heat but at a very low rate.

Also there is a vent under the sink on the left. (We only have a mid-bath.) It was working OK. Front also was putting out air.

I will check on the location for the sensor when I get to the coach.

Floor heat was on for more than 24 hours but had basically no effect in the bedroom and was much cooler in the kitchen living room that I recall it being. The ambient temps were a lot colder than I have ever been in before (And that I ever intend to be in again!) so maybe that was a lot of the issue.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:40 AM   #8
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Emerson your problem sound like my first year of AH ownership. I found one of the Harbor Freight temp guns to be my friend https://www.harborfreight.com/121-in...ter-63985.html
I was able to check the outgoing register temperatures at each register to start eliminating my problems.
Not saying your will be the same, but the temp gun really helped narrowing it down. My bedroom had the best heat, 105 degrees at the register. No kinks in the lines, no sludge in the boost pump and a still working motor.

My problems the gun narrowed down:
1. bad motors
2. a kink in the line at the kitchen slide. low heat at the kitchen register.

3 the floor no heat was a totally blocked elbow in the drivers front wheel well.

Also check for any red lights on the control panel in the basement that might point to a problem.
How is the hot water? Check the fluid level and color. Just passing on my personal experience to the problems I found.
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:08 AM   #9
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, this has caused me to crawl around on the floor looking for vents. I discovered there are actually three vents under the vanity in the aft master bath in the 45B: One facing toward the bedroom; one facing the shower; and one facing the closet. I have no idea if they all have heater elements behind them or are wired for power, but they look like they do. Now that I know they are there, when I get the time, I will pull them out and see what is there. Although they dont seem to do much in my opinion, my cats sure like them..... both huddle near one of those vents when the AquaHot is running.

I still dont think they work well, and my guess is still that the thermostat sensor is positioned poorly for that circuit.

On a positive side, I have found that the VegaTouch does a much nicer job of controlling temperatures in the whole coach than it used to on my 2015 Anthem. Congrats Firefly.

Gary
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:23 AM   #10
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Thanks again to both of you.

Temp gun is something I should have thought of.

No red lights on the control panel; fluid level and color fine.

How did you identify the issues like the blocked elbow and bad motors?

TIA
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:35 AM   #11
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Just a note from an old guy who has used the AH and has seen most of the issues.

First thing is It Will Warm the Coach if it is working Correctly.

Air in lines and Pinched hoses can be an Issue - Only one way to Know - LOOK - TEST - UNDERSTAND.---

Remember - the rear of the Coach and the front of the Coach are not sitting on a Basement, so the floor you are standing on is exposed to the Exterior under your Feet as are the slideouts, so they will feel different, and require more heat.---

Check to see if your Basement heat is on - Set it to help with the Floors.---

The Windshield is a BIG COLD SPOT - so Reflexit helps at night.---

If more heat is needed - and you are plugged in Don't be afraid to supplement with Small electric heaters, ---

Mine worked fine - while spending two winters in Golden Colorado - YUP I'm Nuts - but the First Granddaughter will do that - with 10 days of -17 every night the AH is Nice and with proper understanding functioned well.---

JMHO,
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:38 AM   #12
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How did you identify the issues like the blocked elbow and bad motors?

TIA
The motors were easy, took the cover off and put my hand on the motor. No red lights, but the motors were not running either. You will need to put a piece of tape over the safety switch.


The floor blockage did not show up until Darin Hathaway and I tried to flush the sludge out of the system, the floor would not flush. I remembered a post about that elbow being blocked...pulled the clamp off and the elbow was blocked solid.
There is also the boost pump on the passenger side that pushes fluid through the floor lines. If that pump is not running, fluid will not flow through the floor. Not sure where that pump is on the new models, but on the classic it was just before the kitchen slide, behind a basement panel. You should be able to hear it run when it is on.
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Old 11-13-2018, 12:38 PM   #13
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And don't forget the brass check valves tend to get stuck in the closed position if the AH coolant has not been circulated in a while. A sharp wrap with a small hammer or wrench is usually enough to fix that issue. On the 400 or 450 they are accessible from the removable service panel. On the 375LP it is a major project to access them.
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:20 PM   #14
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I'm feeling lucky. For the past week, we've had rain, highs in the mid forties, lows in the very low 30's.

I've been running AH zone 2 temp on 65, diesel/elec on all day but electric only at night. Diesel burner runs maybe once an hour, floor is toasty. whole coach is toasty. Fireplace is on much of the day, except when I turn it off cause it's too hot.

I keep zones 1 & 3 on heat pump, temp at 66. They'll run some at night, the AH can't keep up with 30 degree lows on elec only, but I'm not gonna listen to that burner until I have to.

The heat pumps work fine when it's cold. A couple times I've heard them do a "defrost", it's kinda freaky sounding if you don't know what it is, but it's normal.

The heat pumps in our old Monaco cut out and switched to gas at about 20-24 degrees.
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