AquaHot Failures - Learned something new

[Gary.Jones]

In another recent thread on here about AquaHot units not firing up, I mentioned I would have more information.

My AquaHot 450-DE4 diesel-fired AquaHot is ~ 3.5 years old and worked perfectly on diesel fuel that entire time, until a few weeks ago when it just was dead. I took off the case and listened to hear what was still working and heard some clicking but little else. Called AquaHot and told them my problem (nothing happened) and they said I would get an idea of the problem if I looked at voltage on the 8 wire plug on what they call the "brain" unit. This not the circuit board on the vertical wall above the AH box, but the black box which attaches to the motor end of the burner assembly that is the main component. There is an 8 wire plug and a 6 wire plug. AH told me to test the voltage on the black wires to ground on the 8 wire plug of the "Brain". If there was ~ > 13.5 volts on that black wire, that would tell me that the "brain" unit was working and turning power to the exhaust motor blower on and off. If there was voltage there, then the motor was getting power but what was likely bad was the motor ($600). If there was no voltage getting to the black wires and to the motor, then the problem was the control module ("brain") and it was $1,000.

I measured 13.5 volts on the black wires indicating that power was getting to the motor but it was not turning the exhaust fan. I read up on the problem and discovered it was not simply a motor but a set of gears from motor to fan and lock-out clutches in the line and decided this was not something I was going to tackle, as I either bought everything in site to have it all in case it was needed when I tore it apart or paid a pro to do the job for me. I have had Lloyd DeGerald do my annual AH service for 6 or 7 years and he lives only about 220 miles from me and decided to see if he was available. Lloyd has passed his business largely on to his son who he trained for years and Brian said he had whatever was needed regardless of what it was and was sure he could get me operational in a few hours.... so made a trip to Paron, AR. Now Lloyd's shop is in the middle of nowhere Paron, AK and there are only certain roads big enough to handle one of our coaches pulling a car. I'd always consult with Lloyd or Brian before attempting the trip. I went I-30 to Benton, then AR 5 to 9 NORTH to his place.

End of story. The control "brain" was fine, the plastic gears and linking from the motor to the burner and Wabasto firing mechanisms had shattered. The motor was actually still good, but I told Brian to make the blower assembly like brand new so Brian replaced the motor (was actually still working fine), all the gears, and put it all back together, tested everything, and I was done in about 2 hours. Brian commented that the gear/motor failure was a common repair he does on coaches 7 to 8 years old..... mine was 3.5 year. Me-thinks the quality of repair parts may well be slipping on newer units. File the info away.....

So the important diagnostic part was the voltage test on the black wires of the "brain" as it tells you quickly if the problem is a bad motor or bad control circuitry. Even then, there are a number of small parts that were replaced.

On the same trip, discovered that my transfer switch does not appear to be transferring toe line voltage current so I've got another thing to deal with.... :-(

Gary

[96 Wideglide]

Yeah, the quality of the Aqua Hot system just keeps dropping year after year!

Wonder if that's what inspired Oassis to get their foot in the door.

[Turbojack]

What was the drive out cost on aqua hot?

[brobox]

Informative information Gary, thanks for sharing. Clicking sound, gears, much like the slides when they start the clicking sound.

On the transfer switch not switching.....I was having that problem when Firefly was loading all of the Beta programs on my Vega Touch for testing. I was unplugging and plugging back in a lot doing the test. Many times the transfer switch did not get power to the coach and the VT was reading generator when the generator was never started. Moral, check that you have the 2 reds light at that transfer switch, also that you have loaded the latest 1.5.9 update. It has solved a lot of problems, also a couple of reboots can't hurt. Hope that is all it is.

[Gary.Jones]

Chuck

Thanks for the suggestion on the transfer switch problem. I will follow your suggestion when I get to my next known power source and see if the problem persists or disappears, It doesn't make a lot of electrical sense at this point. The relays seem to be working and there has been nothing that should have scrambled any of that. It is either the sensing circuit that senses the line voltage available and triggers the power relay to "pull-in" to activate sending power to the house is no longer sensing the available line voltage, or that circuit is non-functional. The transfer switch senses the Onan / genny power just fine and switches from line to genny (priority source) just fine and that has kept me going while traveling as the genny DOES power the house, but the line voltage from the pole does not. When I get home, I will be dealing with a known set of factors and that should help.

I have not downloaded any recent software updates as I am in the middle of trying to move from my old reliable Mobley to my relatively new Nighthawk (and I have not yet received the PUC codes for my SIM card although they were promised 3 days ago (another fun call to Verizon's mindless masses of phone help people). So I don't think it can be a software issue, but we shall see.


TurboJack:

Total cost was ~ $1,000. Even though the motor was OK, I instructed Brian I wanted him to rebuild the Wabasto blower and ignition assembly to "new" quality, and so new motor, new gears, new clutches, plus two hours labor.... right at $1,000 and worth every penny.

Gary

[Gary.Jones]

Oh, and my sense is that Brian has learned 98% of what Lloyd has stored in his head and I feel just as confident in Brian as I always did in Lloyd. The business now goes by the name DeGerald AquaHot Service, and you will find at least one of them at all large FMCA rallies, our ENTEGRA@QUARTZSITE GATHERING, and lots of other places coaches collect. You can Google them if you need annual or emergency service and they are in Paron, AR when not at rallies. I trust either of them fully.

Gary

[DoggieDaddy]

Our last major repair on our AH was to replace the gears and clutch assembly on the blower motor. I was able to replace the gears but the clutch assembly, which was the real problem, was beyond my echelon. The bad clutch assembly caused the blower to not turn at the proper RPM and caused the exhaust to burn a little sooty. At that point we had replaced almost all the major components of the system over the course of eight years. Some three times.

It always amazed me that the AH was more prone to failure as the weather got colder even though we were in Floriduh December through March. And I see from the current threads on the forum that the norm has not changed. They'll work fine all summer heating dish water and shower water but as soon as you need heat..... forget about it.

Good Luck

[brobox]

Gary, On the Mobily PUC codes, I called the AT&T number someone had posted on that Nighthawk thread and got the numbers right over the phone, no waiting. Asked for the second PUC code in case I messed up and he said "sure", and rattled it off.

If you still have internet to the coach, do update to the 1.5.9, that may just solve your problem as it did mine, not to mention the terrible battery charging issue. That part is a must if you want to protect your new batteries.

[757driver]

Great information Gary, thanks for posting your problem and the solution.

[Ambetter]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

Chuck

Thanks for the suggestion on the transfer switch problem. I will follow your suggestion when I get to my next known power source and see if the problem persists or disappears, It doesn't make a lot of electrical sense at this point. The relays seem to be working and there has been nothing that should have scrambled any of that. It is either the sensing circuit that senses the line voltage available and triggers the power relay to "pull-in" to activate sending power to the house is no longer sensing the available line voltage, or that circuit is non-functional. The transfer switch senses the Onan / genny power just fine and switches from line to genny (priority source) just fine and that has kept me going while traveling as the genny DOES power the house, but the line voltage from the pole does not. When I get home, I will be dealing with a known set of factors and that should help.

I have not downloaded any recent software updates as I am in the middle of trying to move from my old reliable Mobley to my relatively new Nighthawk (and I have not yet received the PUC codes for my SIM card although they were promised 3 days ago (another fun call to Verizon's mindless masses of phone help people). So I don't think it can be a software issue, but we shall see.


TurboJack:

Total cost was ~ $1,000. Even though the motor was OK, I instructed Brian I wanted him to rebuild the Wabasto blower and ignition assembly to "new" quality, and so new motor, new gears, new clutches, plus two hours labor.... right at $1,000 and worth every penny.

Gary

Gary, don’t rule out the cord reel when having power from the pole. The contacts inside the reel are a weak point.

[Gary.Jones]

Well, more to add to the power-to-the-coach problem. The 50A power box that I was connected to at my last stop was installed to handle occasional guests and the homeowners coach. What was strange about the whole situation was that I measured on the VegaTouch 123 volts always at 0 amps. I confirmed this by my Fluke meter as 121 VAC on both legs, but my transfer switch would not pull in and actually transfer any current on those legs. The problem seemed like a sensing problem, but I could not confirm one way or the other. I simply decided to worry about the whole problem when I got home the next day.

When I got home, connected the coach up to my own 50A circuit which I installed myself 5 or 6 years ago. I always switch off that line at a breaker before I remove the coach's plug or make sure that the breaker is off before I remove the plug from my service (I NEVER "hot switch" the power plug (have the power on when I plug in or remove the make main coach cord)). I plugged in the coach, threw the breaker to power up my 50A service, and heard the transfer make two large bangs (which is normal) as it first sets the first relay to accept shore power (I could hear one "bang" when I was at the last stop)(two red LEDs illuminated quickly), and then about 30 seconds later, the second "bang" as the relay pulled in to apply power to the coach. In other words, the sounds told me that things seemed to be working normally. I went in the coach a few minutes later and confirmed the coach was "on-line" by trying the fireplace which only lights up when commercial power is applied to the coach (or the Onan), and sure enough, there was normal power to the coach.

Now, this situation has never occurred to me in ~ 8 years of coach ownership. And my guesses are that the situation occurred for one of 2 or 3 reasons. 1.) the 50A female source plug at my previous destination was wired in such a way that my transfer switch would just not sense the voltage (which I could see on the VegaTouch) and pull in the relay to apply current to my coach, or 2.) the normal bouncing down the highway for ~250 miles jiggled something (wire, connection, relay ??) back to "normal" and the switch began functioning correctly (as a random event) before I plugged it in here at the house, or some unknown other resolution.

I am left with the conundrum that a service plug used by my host's coach for some reason works with his coach and other visitor coaches but not mine, or that maybe his service female connector is mis-wired somehow. My best guess is that either a service ground pin or the service neutral pin was floating and not grounded and my transfer switch simply was not going to apply power to the coach unless everything was "as it should be" ..... that is a guess, but I wonder how others have used that service location.

A real head scratcher I must say. Anyone, who is a more skilled commercial electrician have any insight in this whole mystery? I would love to hear other speculation. Alternately, a random loose wire or connection in the transfer switch will be fully explored here at the house, but I am doubtful that that explains the situation.

Gary

[Ambetter]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

Well, more to add to the power-to-the-coach problem. The 50A power box that I was connected to at my last stop was installed to handle occasional guests and the homeowners coach. What was strange about the whole situation was that I measured on the VegaTouch 123 volts always at 0 amps. I confirmed this by my Fluke meter as 121 VAC on both legs, but my transfer switch would not pull in and actually transfer any current on those legs. The problem seemed like a sensing problem, but I could not confirm one way or the other. I simply decided to worry about the whole problem when I got home the next day.

When I got home, connected the coach up to my own 50A circuit which I installed myself 5 or 6 years ago. I always switch off that line at a breaker before I remove the coach's plug or make sure that the breaker is off before I remove the plug from my service (I NEVER "hot switch" the power plug (have the power on when I plug in or remove the make main coach cord)). I plugged in the coach, threw the breaker to power up my 50A service, and heard the transfer make two large bangs (which is normal) as it first sets the first relay to accept shore power (I could hear one "bang" when I was at the last stop)(two red LEDs illuminated quickly), and then about 30 seconds later, the second "bang" as the relay pulled in to apply power to the coach. In other words, the sounds told me that things seemed to be working normally. I went in the coach a few minutes later and confirmed the coach was "on-line" by trying the fireplace which only lights up when commercial power is applied to the coach (or the Onan), and sure enough, there was normal power to the coach.

Now, this situation has never occurred to me in ~ 8 years of coach ownership. And my guesses are that the situation occurred for one of 2 or 3 reasons. 1.) the 50A female source plug at my previous destination was wired in such a way that my transfer switch would just not sense the voltage (which I could see on the VegaTouch) and pull in the relay to apply current to my coach, or 2.) the normal bouncing down the highway for ~250 miles jiggled something (wire, connection, relay ??) back to "normal" and the switch began functioning correctly (as a random event) before I plugged it in here at the house, or some unknown other resolution.

I am left with the conundrum that a service plug used by my host's coach for some reason works with his coach and other visitor coaches but not mine, or that maybe his service female connector is mis-wired somehow. My best guess is that either a service ground pin or the service neutral pin was floating and not grounded and my transfer switch simply was not going to apply power to the coach unless everything was "as it should be" ..... that is a guess, but I wonder how others have used that service location.

A real head scratcher I must say. Anyone, who is a more skilled commercial electrician have any insight in this whole mystery? I would love to hear other speculation. Alternately, a random loose wire or connection in the transfer switch will be fully explored here at the house, but I am doubtful that that explains the situation.

Gary

I’ve had the same problem and it turned out to be in the cord reel. It obviously has one bad spot on it and if you stop on that spot it won’t supply power to the motorhome. It can show voltage, but won’t accept any load. If you move the reel to a different spot it works fine. I also don’t move the reel or apply or disconnect power under a load. Not saying that’s your problem, but if you have it again try moving the reel.

[Turbojack]

Something is wrong where you were plugged in. I agree something wrong with neutral or ground. Was at rv site where voltage meter showed good hot to ground and hot to neutral. Problem was they had the ground just going to ground rod. When checking continuity between neutral and ground there was none. My coach or friends CS would not let power to the coach but progressive said all was ok

Once I got RV park owner permission to fix problem coaches had power. Owner said others wave used poles and never complained.

[Electra 225]

Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide

Yeah, the quality of the Aqua Hot system just keeps dropping year after year!

Wonder if that's what inspired Oassis to get their foot in the door.

Yes, I must say, (though I haven't actively searched) I've yet to run onto a thread about Oasis problems. I've lost count of the Aquahot ones.