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11-13-2016, 07:08 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,531
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Bad Fuel and/or Fuel Filter Question
OK, here is "Not So Dumb Question" #6.
A thread that has re-appeared after months off the screen is one dealing with changing fuel filters and Cummins engine codes indicating problems with fuel and the possibility of the dreaded engine shut down code. Now, I have only owned a diesel coach now for 5 years, and I drove OTR semis for 4 or 5 years off and on while in graduate school, but I luckily have never experienced any problems with diesel fuel, or rather bad diesel fuel. I am knocking on wood right now and hope that this doesn't jinx anything, but am I just lucky and is this fairly common, or is this very rare and the small number of people who have had to deal with this just happen to all be on here on iRV2
What are the issues I need to be aware of? Brobox told me of his policy of never taking on fuel if he sees the fuel truck dumping fuel at the station he is considering fueling due to the stirring and mixing of bottom sludge in the fuel. What are other things to be aware of and try to avoid? Educate me on what I need to be aware of and what I need to avoid. Isn't fuel at station dispensers pre-fitered at least a couple of times? I thought it was. Are some types of station pre-filtering and other types of stations do not?
I have a full set of spare belts and all filters on the coach, including water filters. I have never needed them, and want to know more about the issue and what I need to try to avoid or be aware of.
Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
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11-13-2016, 07:46 AM
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#2
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Moderator Emeritus
Country Coach Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Glen Allen, VA
Posts: 7,902
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My only rule is to try and fuel at places that sell a lot of fuel. We have the Good Sam Pilot/J fuel card so we almost always use Pilot's or Flying J. It is just so convenient to pull in, swipe, fill and leave. We've also used Murphy (WalMart) and Kroger fuel stations if it was convenient and there was sufficient space.
We have traveled cross country times 4, northern routes, southern routes and in the middle and never had an issue with bad fuel. I do carry spare filters JIC.
__________________
2007 Country Coach Allure Siskiyou Summit, sold/traded Nov. 2018.
2019 Grand Designs 384GK-R 5th wheel. Glen Allen, VA
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11-13-2016, 08:08 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,111
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Most stations filter their fuel but how often is that filter changed. We carry spare fuel filters and we almost always use Pilot Flying J or Loves and have had no issues.
"Finally"
Sent from somewhere in the USA
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Finally!!!
Shawn and Donna
2014 Entegra Aspire 42RBQ, 2016 Mazda MX5 Miata
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11-13-2016, 08:17 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 807
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Gary, one more thing to consider is algae and condensation. When our coach had the debris in the fuel tank issue, it sat for about 6 weeks with a 1/4 tank of fuel.
When we finally picked up the coach, I kept getting a WATER IN FUEL warning on the dash. No noticeable difference in engine performance. At our next stop, I did however drain about 2 ounces of water from the fuel/water separator.
Stopped by Cummins on the way back to Atlanta and they changed out both filters. They were also full of algae.
According to Cummins, both the water and the algae were caused by the level of fuel in the tank, 1/4 full, and the high temps and humidity in the Atlanta area while it sat for 6 weeks awaiting repairs.
My take away from that experience . . . when the coach is going to sit for any length of time in a high temp/high humidity area, I will ensure the fuel tank is as near to being topped off as I can get it.
Hope this helps, Brian
__________________
Brian and Julie
Hamilton & Zuri - Rhodesian Ridgebacks
2016 Anthem 44L / HWH Active Air / RF Mogul
2024 RAM Limited FMCA #420209
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11-13-2016, 08:19 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 14,588
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It's not only getting bad fuel at stations but 'self-imposed" problem. If fuel sits in a tank in the right conditions it will develop moisture and potentially algae. When I know our coach will be stored for long periods of time without use I'll leave the tank full but also add Biobor, an algaecide and also Starton, an enzyme that eats dead algae.
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Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD Cummins ISC 350 8.3L
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
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11-13-2016, 08:29 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 783
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I always carry spare filters, not just for the possible bad fuel, but for jelling with the new bio fuel that can start this time of year.
Easy to get stuck with left over summer bio when temps drop. I haven't found a way to know if you're getting summer bio blend.
Changing filter twice while lying on my back in sub zero taught me a lot of things.
Like boost additives, case of 911, AND one spare filter might not be enough in cold weather.
Steve
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Steve & Tracy with rescues Lucy the Beagle & Willow the Boxador
2017 Entegra Aspire DEQ
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11-13-2016, 08:37 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,531
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Thanks for the insights so far, but let me say at this point, that I ALWAYS top off the fuel tanks, any time we are not on the road regardless of whether 3 weeks or 3 months. So, that has been standard operating procedure for me.
Also in the past, I owned a 40' blue water sailboat with a diesel auxillary engine (3 cylinder) and diesel use is very low in typical use, so I always used biocide in that diesel tank and had it pumped out dry every three years to be filled with new diesel.... not heard of anyone using biocide on our diesel tanks, but I would think that would be a good policy also.
But back to the main issue..... what do I need to do to avoid fueling problems when I fuel, if anything.
Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
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11-13-2016, 09:31 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 783
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I always top off as well. Used biocide once for winter, but forgot it a few times and never had an issue.
Since then I just topped off. Our old coach went months, once almost a year, with no additives, and no problems in sitting outside in Indiana's changing temps.
Did this for five years, until new barn was built earlier this year.
Did I just get lucky? Not sure, but since new Aspire gets a temperature controlled barn, I'm not planning on changing my procedure. Though I'll watch this thread to see others comments.
I too have listened to the bad fuel horror stories, but only know one person who really got bad fuel, and that was an early spring trip to Alaska.
However I was glad to have a filter when one jelled on me. Just didn't have two.
Steve
__________________
Steve & Tracy with rescues Lucy the Beagle & Willow the Boxador
2017 Entegra Aspire DEQ
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11-13-2016, 10:31 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Montgomery, TX (Home Sweet Home)
Posts: 2,501
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Gary, in our last coach (2012 Tiffin W/ISC 380) we got a bad load of fuel I attribute to fueling at a new station, or another very small outfit.
Either way, we had a fuel contamination issue significant enough to throw a CEL code, and to cause our speed to be maxed out at 55MPH @ WOT.
Not a good day.
It took over a year and several filter changes to eliminate the symptoms and restore 100% functionality.
Here are my thoughts:
-Never Price shop fuel.
-Fuel where the OTR boys do.
-Always top off at the end of a trip. A full tank has less air volume to produce condensation.
-Always use Biobor or a suitable algacide.
-Carry filters, and almost as important the requisite tools to change them. I do not substitute filters for Baldwin, or anything except Fleetguard. Once, a Baldwin filter didn't fit correctly.
-I have adopted an unofficial personal habit of changing the filters every six months.
In our last coach I could touch the bottom of the water separator and have gained an appreciation for fuel gel issues.
Modern bio-diesel is crap.
-Matt
__________________
Currently Motorhomeless
2017 Entegra Aspire 44R (bunks) towing 2019 F-350 LB (Sold)
2012 Tiffin Phaeton 40QKH (Our Phaeton was so nice, we bought it twice)
2016 Open Range RF376FBH (Sold)
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11-13-2016, 11:49 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,531
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Matt
Several good points. However, there are clarifications. What I routinely look for are 1.) high volume stations, 2.) stations with new tanks, 3.) stations with likely new plastic or fiberglass tanks, 4.) and thanks to Brobox, stations which are not taking on fuel as I begin (but as he points out, what happens if I arrive two minutes after the tanker pulls out?).
A clear negative factor to me is that truck stops tend to be some of the oldest and junkiest fuel depots available today. Although they run a boat load of diesel through their pumps in a day, they often have tanks that are 20-30 years old. The tanks have to comply with current standards but I just have trouble trusting a truck stop when there is a brand new other station across the street with tanks that are less than a year old and the fuel is 50 cents less a gallon. Just sayin'... But I am still learning from responses and my behavior will change as I get wiser.
Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
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11-13-2016, 06:59 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,717
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I have had water in the fuel several times and once was from a Flying J. Did someone leave the in ground fuel tank cover loose and it rained? Probably. Water can come at any time and why all diesels have water/fuel separators. Condensation can also cause water in your clean fuel..We can't control temperature changes, but we can keep our tanks full when sitting for a period of time. The further south, more important that becomes.
I picked up algae at a brand new station just a couple of blocks from my house. My guess there was water in the new tank that sat all during construction and turned green before fuel was added into the tank. I fueled 4 days after the grand opening and got a bad dose of algae.
Carry spare fuel filters and hope you never need them. Park with a full fuel tank and your odds of getting bad fuel diminishes.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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11-13-2016, 07:54 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Port Charlotte , Fl
Posts: 1,497
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Many good suggestions but surprising to me that nobody uses a fuel treatment at every fuel fill. None of us can be certain at the highest volume truck stops even with pump filters that we're not getting some water or microscopic debris and hoping our filters do the job.
Some of you know I grew up farming, owned our farm for over 40 years, worked part-time at the local Freightliner Dealership and have 50 years of diesel ownership and involvement. Every gallon of diesel pumped from our bulk tank was treated and every truck diesel tank at the deaership was treated.
I am one of the believers in HOWSE DIESEL FUEL ADDITIVE. This is not just anti-gel additive but for me more importantly disperses water. If no water then the chances of algae or microbes and other bad things in our tanks is diminished. I , knock on wood , have never had a plugged fuel filter and hope I never do !
Howse is available at Walmart, parts stores and most truck stops.
__________________
Sue & Brian Ashworth & Rizzy( adopted Boxer)
No RV anymore !
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11-13-2016, 08:32 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Montgomery, TX (Home Sweet Home)
Posts: 2,501
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Brian, I always use something for algae, every tank.. yessir.
Chucks experience echoes ours. I filled at a new Valero, and another time at a rink dink outfit. Either was the source.
I think we actually loaded contaminated fuel, as opposed to gaining water in previously good fuel. I had just performed our PM including fuel filters, and within the new next tank of fuel things went sour quickly.
I'd change the filters and things would be OK for a while, then gradual power loss.
Unrelated, but a couple of years later we spent the summer running around WY, and MT where it is evidently #2 diesel, not bio blend. I noticed the engine performing a fraction better, and mileage was up about .5-1.0 MPG. That combined with the trash I cleaned out of our sight bowl on our ISC leads me to believe modern bio blends are pure garbage.
-Matt
P.S. Brian, we are in 513 but I've gotta leave for a while. I hope I'm back when you guys arrive.
__________________
Currently Motorhomeless
2017 Entegra Aspire 44R (bunks) towing 2019 F-350 LB (Sold)
2012 Tiffin Phaeton 40QKH (Our Phaeton was so nice, we bought it twice)
2016 Open Range RF376FBH (Sold)
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11-13-2016, 09:01 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Milford, Michigan
Posts: 1,115
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Has anyone changed to the type of fuel filter with the clear bottom cup to be able to visually check the fuel? I saw a filter like this years ago on a friends' RV long before we got ours so I did not get any details on it.
__________________
2013 ANTHEM RBQ
AL and Sally and Ava and Ivy
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