Bad Jug of DEF Despite No Evidence of Foul Play

[Gary.Jones]

Larry

I didn't understand that you used that other measuring device, not the one that gives you an actual concentration.... now I get it. That also means that my real guess was that the seal had come off somehow in shipping or storage probably is not the cause as it should lead to a higher concentration. Then my second guess is a malfunction in the mixing machine on the packaging line.

Deckape: This has been a big problem since DEF was sold in any store. Early, there were many reports of people buying jugs in Walmart, getting it home and finding that it was plain tap water. Someone had bought it, dumped it all in their rig, filled it with tap water and returned it under some pretext.

Some stores have a policy of not taking DEF back and its why most of us carefully remove the cap and check the seal before we ever buy any WalMart DEF or any DEF that is not in a sealed box (probably why Larry started this thread in the first place). Just like with a bunch of other stuff, when stores get it back, they then dump or junk whatever it is or return it to someone who buys a truckload of returned stuff for a flat fee and then sorts through it to find what can be resold. Its one of the amazing facts of how we do things in the country at this point in time.

Gary

Gary

[brobox]

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

The three jugs of Peak Blue DEF that tested good had two discs floating, which indicates an ideal urea concentration of 32.5%. The one jug that tested bad had only one disc kinda-sorta floating, indicating a urea concentration of 30% or less. I tested that jug multiple times and it tested the same each time.

Just my experience, thankfully only once, and as you probably experience, bad DEF has a strong pungent ammonia smell. I wish I had a tester to know what the urea reading was. All I can say is old urea turn to ammonia that kills DEF sensors and weeds.

[bigb56]

Is anyone using a digital tester?

[brobox]

Originally Posted by bigb56

Is anyone using a digital tester?

At $672 ...Ah Nope! https://www.amazon.com/OTC-3095-Elec...130806&sr=8-12

[bigb56]

Originally Posted by brobox

At $672 ...Ah Nope! https://www.amazon.com/OTC-3095-Elec...130806&sr=8-12

I didn't know they were that expensive....I could swear there were some under $100 at one time.....here's one for $354 anyway https://www.reichertai.com/products/...ital-def-chek/

[bevandtomH]

Deckape has the same problem as I do with regards to returns. I carry at least two boxes or jugs all the time. It can be weeks before I dump a new container into the tank. I’ll test some, but your visual check in a store is all the majority of people do.
As long as the cost stays low I don’t bother with keeping receipts.
But if the cost jumps up significantly you know people will be diving in dumpsters to return “their bad DEF” for a store credit or refund.
I now destroy the box and slice the container a lot before tossing.
DEF should be treated like fuel. No returns, no exceptions. And if they do allow returns, why not test on the spot. Nobody would risk potential jail or court time for fraud.

[wildcatter]

Originally Posted by Turbojack

When I use to use the Peak DEF I never took it out of the box. If I was using more then one box at a time I would take the pour spout from the first and put in on the other jugs.

Many years ago I had bought spark plugs and when I got home and opened the boxes the plugs were all used. From then on I open the boxes before leaving the store.

I had this happen with a cheap paint gun I bought at Walmart, got it home and opened it and there was a used paint gun in there, at first site the box didn't look tampered with, closer inspection the other end of the box was glued back together, it was really hard to tell.

[RandyRich]

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

In this post…

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/def...ml#post6019575

…which I made on 12/16/2021 (right at two months ago as of today - 2/15/2022), I mentioned purchasing four jugs of Blue DEF at a local Walmart. Each of the four jugs was in a cardboard box, I checked each box to ensure all four has the same esoteric date coding, and to be sure none of the boxes had been tampered with.

Since then, the four boxes/jugs have been stored in our house garage here in Scottsdale, AZ. The daytime temps since that time have been relatively cool, so there should have been no issues with compromised DEF quality.

Today, I decided to refill the close-to-empty DEF tank on our 2018 Cornerstone. I opened the boxes of Blue DEF one at a time. After opening the first box, I lifted the jug out of the box, removed the screw-on cap on the jug, removed the seal on the spout, and tested the DEF with my tester. The first jug tested good, so I emptied it into the tank on the coach.

I followed the same routine with the second box of Blue DEF, but when I got the jug out of the box and removed the cap, I noticed there was no seal on the spout. Very strange because there was no evidence whatsoever that the box had been tampered with, and there is no way to get to the cap or spout without opening up the box. When I tested the DEF in that jug, guess what – it tested bad.

I moved on to the third and fourth boxes. Found them to be exactly like the first box – seal on the spout, DEF in the jug tested good. My tentative conclusion is that the person or machine that was supposed to apply the seal to the spout of jug #2 somehow malfunctioned. The cap was nonetheless tight and I didn’t see any signs of leakage. But somehow the DEF in that jug was bad.

Just to be sure, I tested it four or five times and it flunked every time. Further evidence of the DEF in that jug being bad was that when I poured some DEF out of the jug into a sink in our garage, it smelled REALLY BAD. My friend Chuck (Brobox) knows that smell all too well.

At this point I’m at a loss to explain how the DEF in that jug went bad. Any thoughts or theories will be appreciated.

In any case, this experience does underline the importance of testing DEF before you pour it into your tank, even if it comes in a box that shows no evidence of having been tampered with.

I dumped the Walmart DEF (also bad) and it killed a row of bushes and one tree. Da ... shame on me. I also test it before I will add to DEF Tank.

[LWBAZ]

Originally Posted by Cr8havoc

I dumped the Walmart DEF (also bad) and it killed a row of bushes and one tree. Da ... shame on me. I also test it before I will add to DEF Tank.

Dang, I thought urea was a key ingredient in many fertilizer products.

Maybe the dose was too strong and your bushes and trees OD'ed!

[xyzabc]

Originally Posted by Poppedclams

Any link to a refractometer

SMARTSMITH DEF Refractometer 0-40% AdBlue Diesel Exhaust Fluid Urea Concentration Refractometer - 32 AUS (Aqueous Urea Solution) Urea Concentration Scale Hand Held Refractometer Foam-Lined Hardcase

Available on Amazon for roughly $25

[kevinpvb]

I hate to admit my ignorance, but, this is part of learning.

What does bad DEF do?

Can it cause some sort of mechanical failure or electronic failure?

thanks in advance for any education anyone can provide.

[Camper Ken]

Originally Posted by Dieselgem

Stop giving these guy ideas!

Exactly! Every time I read things like this I wonder the same thing, why are we giving people ideas or the how-to to do these bad things? Watching the TV news, someone set off a homemade bomb and the story goes on to say "instructions for homemade bombs are on the internet". Sure, bad guys already know this, but some person who's "on the edge" of sanity may think, "hey I think I'll do that too".

[grassy]

Something else to worry about ? Just sold my pre def sport chassis and now in a one ton .

I buy my def from napa. is this a must have piece of equipment ?

[THenne1713]

DEF has expiration date, I read, and have read of Recalls?