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Old 10-03-2022, 12:25 PM   #1
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Black Tank Tank Flush diagram ... Anyone??

I am having real problems getting the information I am requesting out of Middlebury, not because I don't think it exists, but because I keep running into newbie's in customer service that don't apparently understand what I want.

What I want is a more complete understanding of the black tank flush system in my 2019 Cornerstone. Specifically, I was requesting a diagram or diagrams or pictures or illustrations that show the black tank, where the blank tank flush fixture is located on the tank wall or top (I assume), and what the sprayer itself looks like and how it does it job. Do anyone out there have any of that information that you could post here or send to me as an email attachment.???

I know how it works, as I have been doing it all four years that I have owned this Cornerstone, but what I am trying to understand is how and what is mounted there, whatever it is that is mounted, and how it does its job.

Anyone have first hand information from removing your black tank or working on it yourself? I believe I read someone who was going to modify the tank to add additional sprayer fixtures for better internal coverage, etc.

Any help would be appreciated.

Gary
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Old 10-03-2022, 01:16 PM   #2
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Black Tank Flush hose connection
Supply goes into bottom of the Anti-siphon Vacuum Breaker Check Valve (typically located inside a bathroom cabinet. Required to be located higher then toilet bowl level)
Water flows thru Valve out the side and goes to nozzle in tank (typically installed in tank wall opposite drain outlet. Nozzle can be just a stub with holes drilled into it or might actually swirl under pressure)

Water pressure lifts internal disc/diaphragm inside the Valve closing off the air slots in top
When water pressure is turned off, disc drops opening the air slots breaking any siphoning action

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Old 10-03-2022, 01:21 PM   #3
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Ok Great explanation thank you. From us, Btw how often should tank flush be used. Thanks for Info.
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Old 10-03-2022, 01:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Poppedclams View Post
Ok Great explanation thank you. From us, Btw how often should tank flush be used. Thanks for Info.

Personal Choice as to usage

I have factory installed flush system
Used it a few times when RV was New......never had one before so thought OK, neat idea.

For me, personal opinion .....waste of good water
Waste tanks are 'holding' tanks and do not need to be Clean, Flushed etc
Fill/Dump/add few gallons back in to keep tank bottom wet/Repeat

In 50 yrs of RVng/Camping have never had a clogged tank and I am not concerned with waste tanks being clean/flushed as they will be used again and again etc

Again.......personal choice and how one uses the Waste Tank Flush System
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Old 10-03-2022, 01:34 PM   #5
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Old biscuit

Thanks very much for a drawing of the overall logic and plumbing. That helps a lot.

What I am still interested in is specific information on our Entegra black tank rinse system. Specifically, where is the flush nozzle located in the tank? What is the field that the spray naturally directs most of its water to? What specific nozzle is on the end of the piping, does it spray only forward, generate a spray that supposedly covers the top, bottom and the three forward side walls, etc. etc.? Is there more than one spray head doing the spraying or a single head and location?

I am really trying to understand the black tank spray system on this specific Entegra coach.

Gary
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Old 10-03-2022, 03:22 PM   #6
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The small pipe with the holes in the diagram is mounted on the passenger at top of the tank. Itís just designed to add water to the tank to allow for flushing out. The holes will get clogged up over time if itís not adding water to the tank.
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Old 10-03-2022, 04:16 PM   #7
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I agree with OB, spending time on a regular basis trying to get the black tank flush to aid in cleaning is a waste of time imo.
Using the system Lynn (DebbieMH)posted a while back if you donít have a gravity drop toilet, is more efficient.
Bobby is correct about that end getting clogged. EC ďcleanedĒ mine out and was still clogged a month later.
Iím lucky to have a gravity drop toilet in our half bath. Every other month or so, I can run one of those wands with a spinner spray head into the tank. You can get them at CW.
I would add another fresh water fill before I would add another ďsprayerĒ to the black.
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Old 10-03-2022, 04:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppedclams View Post
Btw how often should tank flush be used. Thanks for Info.
I've adopted a black tank flush strategy that has seemed to work well for me. I judge the efficacy of the strategy based on the continued functionality of the black tank sensor.

I use, almost exclusively, the macerator for tank dumping. The only time I've used the gravity dump was when the macerator failed.

A few days before I plan to dump the black tank, I'll close the gray tank dump valve (I regularly leave that open when I'm parked for an extended period of time). Whenever we're traveling, I'll typically only hook up the dump hose every third day, or so. The purpose of closing the gray tank a few days before dumping the black tank is to accumulate a large quantity of gray water in the holding tank; the more, the better. When the tanks, both black and gray, are nearing full capacity, I'll dump. My habit has been to first open the gray tank valve and dump a small quantity using the macerator, just enough to confirm that the macerator is working. I would much rather discover that the macerator pump had failed with a small quantity of gray water in the dump system than black water. Once I've confirmed that the macerator pump is working, I'll close the gray water tank valve and open the black water tank valve. I'll then dump the black tank until it's empty. At that point, with the black tank valve still open, I'll open the gray tank valve. With the black tank empty and the gray tank nearly full, a flow of gray water back through the macerator box into the black tank will occur. I regularly see the black tank level rise to greater than 50%. That's gray water pushed into the black tank. That flow takes only a few seconds; if it's quiet, you can hear when the flow stops. You can also monitor when the black tank sensor stops increasing. Once that back flow has stopped, I'll close the gray tank valve and start the macerator to again empty the black tank. Often, I'll still have sufficient gray water remaining to repeat that process, getting two back flushes of the black tank with gray water. I'll complete that process, after the black tank has been completely emptied, by closing the black tank valve, opening the gray tank valve and finally starting the macerator one last time to completely empty the gray tank.

For me, that process seems to adequately backflush the black tank making use of the black tank flush system not necessary.

Before I put the coach into storage for any extended time, I will use the black tank flush to get a good rinse of fresh water in the black tank.

My black tank sensor has worked flawlessly for the 5 years we've owned the coach by using the gray water backflush process.

Take care,
Stu
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Old 10-04-2022, 07:51 AM   #9
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You nailed it, "777". That's exactly what we did with our '06 Dynasty. Our year-old Entegra Esteem, unfortunately has the two tanks stacked, and the black is on the top!!! Were it the other way around, it would be nice to be able to "equalize" the tanks a bit when the gray gets full before emptying is an easy option, such as in a campground without site sewer connections. There's another good thing about having the SaniCon to allow cross feeding, when needed.
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Old 10-04-2022, 08:39 AM   #10
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I do the same back flushing on my 2014. Since the drain is always open on my stinky slinky I can only get about 20% back into the black tank, but it still helps.
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Old 10-04-2022, 03:51 PM   #11
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I modified our sprayer. I had the same issue on our last Allegro Bus in that the sprayer head got plugged up. I removed the sprayer head from the black tank, which was 3 small screws that held the flange to the top of the tank. I removed the sealant to get to them, removed the hose and washed the spray head off in a shop sink. The holes were radiating from the sides of the head, which had filled with sediment and clogged. I drilled them out with a slightly larger drill bit (7/64" if I recall correctly) then applied sealant to the flange, reinstalled the head and covered the flange and screws with sealant. No more clogging after that.

This head isn't a blastomatic thing. What it will do is apply enough water to the passenger side of the tank to flush any bottom debris or paper to the driver side where it can be dumped. I actually went a bit farther and replumbed the sprayer to an electric solenoid valve, as well as a check valve for redundancy, to my main water line with a remote mid-bath switch so that I can flush the tank without having to move garden hoses around. I then added a second sprayer to the gray tank in the same manner but I bought a Camco Tornado sprayer which has more of a whirlwind action.
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Old 10-04-2022, 04:37 PM   #12
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Mark

Thanks for the additional information and I would bet that you are then the person I read in another thread or even another forum that went in and added a second sprayer.... I definitely remember reading about someone doing that but could not retrieve any reference.

All the information provided above gives me a much better idea of how that system is plumbed and that helps my understanding. Now, I have had no problem with my system.... I just want to understand how it works and what I know is happening when I flush the black tank. Now, let me go on and say that I DO definitely go through the process of flushing the black tank on this Cornerstone. I have no fixed interval but on average it is probably every two or three weeks when traveling. We only use single ply toilet paper (Scott 1000 only) on our coach which I have found tends to disintegrate into fibers rather than sheets pretty quickly. I also routinely use Happy Camper black tank additive every time I empty the black tank which knocks down odors and seems to help the disintegration of the toilet paper. I have a clear section at the downturn fitting on both the 3" slinky hose and the Sanicon Macerator hose so that "contents" can be observed passing-by and one rarely seems paper.

Also, I always immediately add about three gallons of tap water into the black tank as soon as the black tank is empty so there is aways a good quantity of liquid in the tank and the black tank is never dry. I think that is the "secret" of happy black tank functioning....never dry! The Happy Camper tank additive is added to the contents as the gallons of water are added as soon as the tank is empty.

Now, back to tank flushing ..... I believe that my flushing sprayer must be in good shape as it certainly takes the full force of the RV park water system easily. I have found that after dumping the black tank, then the gray tank to flush the hose and system, and when done, I then flush my black tank full force for about 10-15 minutes. I do the tank flushing only every two to four weeks.

My finding is that I get nothing but clear water after about 10 minutes of "flushing" but until that time, "stuff" randomly floats through the clear drain fixture. In 8 years of motorcoaching, never had a problem, but I had nothing better to think about and decided to try to understand better what Entegra is setting this system up to do.

I'm sure we all have our "own system" and that is mine.

Gary
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Old 10-04-2022, 07:15 PM   #13
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Gary, that's real close to my procedure. We used to use Happy Camper, and it works well, but decided to go with a liquid instead. The Happy Camper is a dry powder so you do have to swish it around a bit to dissolve it prior to flushing the toilet. We went to Pure Power blue liquid, which works just as well and instantly dissolves. The downside is that it stinks so we kept it in the basement rather than in the bath.

So phase two was to buy a windshield washer tank and pump just like is used in the Entegra washer. It's actually a generic system commonly used in a Bluebird bus so it was easy enough to find. I mounted it in the passenger side basement compartment next to the fresh tank and ran the hose into the top of the black tank. I then mounted another mini rocker switch in the mid-bath next to the black and gray tank dump valves, fresh water fill, and black tank flush valve. I filled it with Pure Power blue and when I need to add chemical I just flip the switch for about two seconds and it's added to the black tank.

That was phase two but this year I tried something new after seeing it on an American Coach Eagle as original equipment. This was the UviaLite system. This system uses ultraviolet light to kill any pathogens, odors, etc in the air above the fluid in the black tank. It's a really slick system and I wrote up the install and its benefits on my rvtechmag.com website. I did this in spring and have since travelled on two month-long trips this summer and fall without adding any chemical with no issues. After researching this I realized that chemicals use enzymes to break down the odors but they really are not required to break down tissue (I use the same Scotts as you) or human waste. It just takeswater to do that. Plus the enzymes need about 4 days to grow before they become active. We would dump every 4 days on the average so the chemical really wasn't doing anything for us other than draining our bank account. The Uvialite system takes care of the odors by creating ozone - more details in that article.

I do have the clear hose elbows and can monitor the outflow to see the clear water. I do flush the system as well and it does make a difference in keeping the Seelevel sensors accurate. 10-15 minutes is about right. If in a hurry, 1-2 minutes doesn't do much other than rinse your hose.
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Old 10-05-2022, 08:12 AM   #14
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Was never a big fan of chemicals either and stopped using them long ago. Our boat holding tank (dometic vacuflush system) interestingly came with an air emitter and a small aquarium air pump - the idea was to induce air into the tank contents to encourage the growth of the "good" critters. Didn't really ever notice much difference so gave up on that too.

As for keeping the SeaLevel sensors working well, I basically follow a similar emptying procedure described by 777Driver. The OEM sprayer does seem to help resolve minor sensor issues. If the problem gets more severe I hook up the 3" slinky with a Flush King, which is just a clear elbow with a gate valve and garden hose fitting. The advantage is you get a more intense flush than with the macerator and you can backfill the tank much more rapidly (3 or 4 min) than using the OEM sprayer, plus you can flush the gray tank as well (that's the one I have the most problems with). Two, three, or four flushes will usually resolve any remaining sensor problems.

I've thought about adding a small "inspection" port on the passenger side of the tank just large enough to get a pressure washer nozzle into. That would let you aim directly at the area where the sensors are. I haven't pursued this because the Flush King method has been working so far.

I am also in total agreement on keeping the tanks "wet". For the months we live on the boat the coach tanks are filled, I may add a few gallons of white vinegar if there were brewing sensor problems in the spring. When we move back to the coach the sensors will be working perfectly.
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