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Old 02-22-2021, 05:45 PM   #1
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Confused on Batteries

Looking at Lifelines and previous threads. The natural replacement, the 4CT, is priced at 339-399. Yet, I have seen mid-600s in other threads. This is the price for the much taller, higher amp hour version...are you folks that have two racks of AGMs (classics) pulling a rack and installing 4 of the higher amp hour L16s?
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Old 02-22-2021, 06:20 PM   #2
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Dave, you could theoretically do that, but any brand of L16 batteries will have a larger footprint than the BCI Group GC2 batteries that came in your coach. The Lifeline GPL-L16T footprint is 11.64 x 6.95 and those batteries are 15.73 tall. The Lifeline GPL-4CT footprint is 10.28 x 7.06 and they are 9.92 tall. The point being, its not a given that four L16s would fit in one of your existing trays without modifications.

Another consideration is total capacity. Eight Lifeline GPL-4CTs provide 880 Amp Hours of rated capacity, while four Lifeline GPL- L16Ts would provide 800 Amp Hours of rated capacity. Not a big difference, but something to be aware of.
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Old 02-22-2021, 07:49 PM   #3
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Understand sizing. On classics you’d have to remove a tray to put the L16s in.
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:12 PM   #4
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Dave, I may be missing something, but I'm not understanding why you'd want expend the effort to convert to four L16's versus your current setup of eight GC2's.

One of the companies I use to benchmark Lifeline battery pricing is Powerstride Battery. Their current price for Lifeline GPL-4CT's in quantities of six or greater is $333.87 with free shipping, while their current price for Lifeline GPL-L16T's is $684.92 with free shipping. $333.87 x 8 = $2,670.96. $684.92 x 4 = $2,739.68.

So if you stick with the configuration you have, you'll save a few bucks, the installation will be straightforward, and you'll have a bit more capacity. If instead you undertake the effort to go with L16's, you'll spend a little more money, have less capacity, and have some additional work to do.

About the only argument I can see for the L16's is weight. Four of the Lifeline GPL-L16T's would weigh 476 pounds, while eight of the Lifeline GPL-4CT's would weigh 528 pounds. With your coach being a Cornerstone, that difference is lost in the rounding.

Regarding pricing, I'm not saying Powerstride Battery is always the low-price leader, but I don't often see them getting beat by much.
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:37 PM   #5
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LWBAZ is right. Converting your battery system to L16s would be more work and expense, only to wind up with less capacity. Why would you want to do that?
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ View Post
Dave, I may be missing something, but I'm not understanding why you'd want expend the effort to convert to four L16's versus your current setup of eight GC2's.

One of the companies I use to benchmark Lifeline battery pricing is Powerstride Battery. Their current price for Lifeline GPL-4CT's in quantities of six or greater is $333.87 with free shipping, while their current price for Lifeline GPL-L16T's is $684.92 with free shipping. $333.87 x 8 = $2,670.96. $684.92 x 4 = $2,739.68.

So if you stick with the configuration you have, you'll save a few bucks, the installation will be straightforward, and you'll have a bit more capacity. If instead you undertake the effort to go with L16's, you'll spend a little more money, have less capacity, and have some additional work to do.

About the only argument I can see for the L16's is weight. Four of the Lifeline GPL-L16T's would weigh 476 pounds, while eight of the Lifeline GPL-4CT's would weigh 528 pounds. With your coach being a Cornerstone, that difference is lost in the rounding.

Regarding pricing, I'm not saying Powerstride Battery is always the low-price leader, but I don't often see them getting beat by much.
Not to stir it up but.............. you could buy 4 Lion Energy LiFePO4 batteries that would give you 420Ah 100 of which is usable, which is theoretically the same usable capacity of either of the two AGM options you listed above. These batteries would charge at least 3X and probably 4-5X faster. They come with a lifetime warranty and they could be purchased for $2800........and oh BTW the total weight of all 4 would be 92lbs TOTAL!!

Just sayin'
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:55 PM   #7
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Not to stir it up but.............. you could buy 4 Lion Energy LiFePO4 batteries that would give you 420Ah 100 of which is usable, which is theoretically the same usable capacity of either of the two AGM options you listed above. These batteries would charge at least 3X and probably 4-5X faster. They come with a lifetime warranty and they could be purchased for $2800........and oh BTW the total weight of all 4 would be 92lbs TOTAL!!

Just sayin'
Paul, I think you meant to type something other than 100. If you meant 100%, that's not quite the case, but it is true you can safely use more of the capacity of lithium batteries than you can with AGM batteries.

But again, the question is why bother changing from a configuration that works just fine? An Entegra Cornerstone weighs somewhere between 45,000 and 50,000 pounds. The weight of the battery bank - any battery bank - is insignificant as a percentage of the total weight.
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:41 PM   #8
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Paul, I think you meant to type something other than 100. If you meant 100%, that's not quite the case, but it is true you can safely use more of the capacity of lithium batteries than you can with AGM batteries.

But again, the question is why bother changing from a configuration that works just fine? An Entegra Cornerstone weighs somewhere between 45,000 and 50,000 pounds. The weight of the battery bank - any battery bank - is insignificant as a percentage of the total weight.
Actually, I did mean 100 as Lion and Battle Born both rate their batteries AH based on 100% use.....in essence, they actually have more AH capability but the BMS will shut them down at 100-105AH usage.

Weight is nothing but an added benefit and there is no way at all to compare the speed of charging with Lithium vs Lead-acid but then again.....staying with AGM is an option of course.

One thing I do know is that I have NEVER run into someone who has Lithium that wouldn't do it again
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Old 02-22-2021, 10:13 PM   #9
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Actually, I did mean 100 as Lion and Battle Born both rate their batteries AH based on 100% use.....in essence, they actually have more AH capability but the BMS will shut them down at 100-105AH usage.

Weight is nothing but an added benefit and there is no way at all to compare the speed of charging with Lithium vs Lead-acid but then again.....staying with AGM is an option of course.

One thing I do know is that I have NEVER run into someone who has Lithium that wouldn't do it again
Not to get nit-picky, but the way you wrote it the implication was "420 Ah, 100 (Ah) of which is usable."

Speed of charging is a non-issue for owners who don't dry camp, and most Cornerstone owners do not.

None of my comments are meant as a knock on lithium batteries. My point is that for many owners of higher-end coaches the time, effort and cost to convert from flooded-cell or AGM house batteries to lithium house batteries simply isn't worthwhile. For avid boondockers and dry campers, yes.
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Old 02-22-2021, 10:23 PM   #10
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Not to stir it up but.............. you could buy 4 Lion Energy LiFePO4 batteries that would give you 420Ah 100 of which is usable, which is theoretically the same usable capacity of either of the two AGM options you listed above. These batteries would charge at least 3X and probably 4-5X faster. They come with a lifetime warranty and they could be purchased for $2800........and oh BTW the total weight of all 4 would be 92lbs TOTAL!!

Just sayin'
If you're real adventurous you could build your own lifepo4 batteries. You can get 280ah cells (4 to build 1 12v battery) for under $500 dollars

https://m.vi.aliexpress.com/item/100...8a2d6e4323e771

Then put a 200 amp bms for $125

https://m.vi.aliexpress.com/item/400...8a2d6e4323e771

So for around $1200 you could have 560amp hour capacity. Granted you will need a DC to dc charger for your alternator $ 150 to $300 depending on amps. But still far ahead on cost and weight. And a lot of left over storage space.
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Old 02-22-2021, 10:39 PM   #11
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OK...now I think I understand.2016 Entegra switched to the L16 size. No I don’t want to pull the tray to do so. I guess I didn’t realize the diff between classics and “modern” in the way Entegra was doing batteries. Apologies.
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Old 02-23-2021, 01:39 AM   #12
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Not to stir it up but.............. you could buy 4 Lion Energy LiFePO4 batteries that would give you 420Ah 100 of which is usable, which is theoretically the same usable capacity of either of the two AGM options you listed above. These batteries would charge at least 3X and probably 4-5X faster. They come with a lifetime warranty and they could be purchased for $2800........and oh BTW the total weight of all 4 would be 92lbs TOTAL!!

Just sayin'
If it were only this easy.

Now you have to modify the exposed battery compartment to protect from the heat and cold. Change out the two Magnum remotes so that you can have some automatic control over the charging of the lithium bank. Change out the BIM to either a lithium BIM or install a DC to DC charger for alternator charging while driving. And give up auto gen start on the Onan EC-30 because the start at voltage cannot be programmed high enough for lithium.

Not saying it cannot be done or is not worth it but there is more to it than just replacing batteries with a drop in lithium replacement.
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Old 02-23-2021, 06:43 AM   #13
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If it were only this easy.

Now you have to modify the exposed battery compartment to protect from the heat and cold. Change out the two Magnum remotes so that you can have some automatic control over the charging of the lithium bank. Change out the BIM to either a lithium BIM or install a DC to DC charger for alternator charging while driving. And give up auto gen start on the Onan EC-30 because the start at voltage cannot be programmed high enough for lithium.

Not saying it cannot be done or is not worth it but there is more to it than just replacing batteries with a drop in lithium replacement.
Except... those of us with a "modern" Entegra all ready have their batteries nice and warm inside.

This whole question is why I haven't changed batteries yet.
The difference in cost between 4 good L16 AGM's, and 400ah of Lithium, is near moot at this point.
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Old 02-23-2021, 06:50 AM   #14
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Dave, the OP lives part time in a beautiful RV resort in ID. It does get cold there so modification for a warm battery compartment for Lithium would be necessary on his Classic. I followed Don's conversion closely and decided the way I use my Cornerstone, the conversion would not be in my best interest. If we went back to they type of traveling, it would be in a smaller coach. JMO.

I am watching battery posts closely as my coach was one of the coaches that sat through the Pandemic shutdown for 3 months. I doubt if it was plugged in, so I am expecting a short battery life.
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