Continuation of Battery Charging and the 1.5.9 Update

[brobox]

New information has come to light with the new single inverter coaches defaulting back to the low charging rate which will ruin your batteries from under charging.

John D. contracted me Sunday with this problem just starting. The defaults have reverted to Absorb 14.2 Absorb hours 2.5 and the float to 13.2v. The proper setting are Absorb Volts 14.7 Absorb Hours 3 and Float 13.6v This is in the Custom selection accessed from the Inverter page.

I spoke with Justin at NRIVC yesterday, the coach he just flew out to CA and took to up Vegas NIRVC, had the batteries replacement covered and updated the Vega Touch. The owner called Justin over the weekend and expressed the same settings had taken place on his 22. Both of these coaches are single inverter coaches.
My coach last week, which is a double invert and the setting on v 1.5.9 are holding correctly, however that batteries are not charging. I was at the coach to change the generator oil. Unplugged, the voltage stabilized at 12.8v which is acceptable. Left the coach unplugged while I changed the oil about 45 minutes. All that was on inside the coach was the light master, front of coach only and the upstairs refrigerator. The batteries had dropped to 12.3v. It oook 24 hours for the batteries to charge back to the float voltage of 13.6. That should have been done in the absorb time.

Something is still not right with the 1.5.9 update. With all of the hurricane repair problem still going on, I will not be involved doing the testing, etc. From past experience, Firefly is not to interested in correcting the battery charging issue until many people with the same problem start reporting their issues. If others want to keep their batteries in working condition, they might want to check the charging settings. Entegra only covers the batteries for 1 year. If the batteries a die from low charging, anything 13 month and beyond it will be $3.100 to replace. If the charging issue is not corrected the same thing will happen to the new batteries. I have gone as far as I can with this issue, it will be up to Firefly and Entegra to correct it. It will be interesting to hear if others setting have defaulted back to the lower settings that will not keep the batteries charged. FireFly's phone number is 574-825-4600

If any one is heading to Entegra with the low charging issue, perfect time for Firefly to see it first hand.

[voltdoc]

Chuck, sorry to hear this. I haven't totally followed your other thread on this topic, but just out of curiosity what is the inverter/charger involved? Is it the Magnum hybrid MSH-3012RV, another Magnum model or something else?

If it's a Magnum model, I am curious because I have been experimenting with the Magnum ME-RVC on my coach. That device is the bridge between the RV-C network (Vegatouch in your case) and the MagNet proprietary communications on Magnum inverters. In theory the ME-RVC takes the place of the Magnum Remotes, like the ME-RC50 or ME-ARC which were used on the non-Vegatouch coaches.

However, I have discovered a way I can have an ME-RVC installed to report various parameters to the RV-C *and* still have my ME-RC50 Remote in full control of the settings.

As far as I can tell it is the Magnum Remote device (ME-RC50, ME-ARC, ME-RVC, etc. ) that stores and enforces any settings that differ from the Inverter/Charger basic defaults.

The MSH models have the ME-RVC built in so that complicates things. I don't really know what would happen on an MSH, but the manual implies if a standard Remote is plugged in, it takes control of the settings away from the RV-C interface. Have you or any of the others involved considered obtaining an ME-RC or ME-ARC and trying to use that to set and maintain your charging parameters? At least while the issue is being worked out. My expectation is the Vegatouch would continue to display basic status like voltage/amps/freq/temperatures, but the configuration settings shown on the Vegatouch would become invalid.

My experience with the ME-RVC turned up some "irregularities" in regard to full compliance with the RV-C specification. Compared to other RV-C devices I have evaluated, things just seemed a little sloppy.

This won't help your issue in any way but if anyone wants a bit of insight regarding the MagNet to RV-C conversion, this spreadsheet outlines the details of the various PGN's generated by the ME-RVC and broadcast to the RV-C network. The info shown is actual data from my Magnum MS-2812 captured on my RV-C network.

Also, FYI I have been testing with two ME-RVC units, a circa 2018 version (kindly donated by LWBAZ) and a new circa 2022 "Lithium" model that I purchased. Despite the RV-C irregularities, it is doing basically what I want by reporting my Magnum data to the RV-C. I am particularly interested in the SOC value from my Battery Monitor Kit (BMK) so I can use that to trigger a generator start instead of voltage. Interestingly, the 2018 ME-RVC model doesn't properly recognize the presence of the BMK and doesn't report SOC. This further suggests there might be other things getting "lost in translation" within the ME-RVC that could be circumvented by employing a standard Magnum Remote to take charge of the configuration.

[Justin Townley]

Originally Posted by brobox

New information has come to light with the new single inverter coaches defaulting back to the low charging rate which will ruin your batteries from under charging.

John D. contracted me Sunday with this problem just starting. The defaults have reverted to Absorb 14.2 Absorb hours 2.5 and the float to 13.2v. The proper setting are Absorb Volts 14.7 Absorb Hours 3 and Float 13.6v This is in the Custom selection accessed from the Inverter page.

I spoke with Justin at NRIVC yesterday, the coach he just flew out to CA and took to up Vegas NIRVC, had the batteries replacement covered and updated the Vega Touch. The owner called Justin over the weekend and expressed the same settings had taken place on his 22. Both of these coaches are single inverter coaches.
My coach last week, which is a double invert and the setting on v 1.5.9 are holding correctly, however that batteries are not charging. I was at the coach to change the generator oil. Unplugged, the voltage stabilized at 12.8v which is acceptable. Left the coach unplugged while I changed the oil about 45 minutes. All that was on inside the coach was the light master, front of coach only and the upstairs refrigerator. The batteries had dropped to 12.3v. It oook 24 hours for the batteries to charge back to the float voltage of 13.6. That should have been done in the absorb time.

Something is still not right with the 1.5.9 update. With all of the hurricane repair problem still going on, I will not be involved doing the testing, etc. From past experience, Firefly is not to interested in correcting the battery charging issue until many people with the same problem start reporting their issues. If others want to keep their batteries in working condition, they might want to check the charging settings. Entegra only covers the batteries for 1 year. If the batteries a die from low charging, anything 13 month and beyond it will be $3.100 to replace. If the charging issue is not corrected the same thing will happen to the new batteries. I have gone as far as I can with this issue, it will be up to Firefly and Entegra to correct it. It will be interesting to hear if others setting have defaulted back to the lower settings that will not keep the batteries charged. FireFly's phone number is 574-825-4600

If any one is heading to Entegra with the low charging issue, perfect time for Firefly to see it first hand.

Good Morning,
I want to take a moment to keep everyone abreast of the situation so that everyone knows the steps taken so far. I took ButchT's coach into our Las Vegas store to perform some tests, my goal was to both see how his charging system was performing so that I could make an argument with Relion for the reimbursement of the battery replacement as well as to verify that the latest update from Firefly version 1.5.9 had the desired effect on the single Magnum Inverter coach. I had drained the batteries down in the coach and monitored the charge using Victron Energy shunts between the inverter and the batteries so that I could verify the inverter was running through charge cycles properly. After 48 hours of recording, I found that the inverter itself was running exactly as it was intended. I compared the results to the Magnum manual and found they matched. Throughout this test I took temperature readings with a thermal imaging camera to see if I could identify any issues with the charging system overall. I had found temperatures on the main wires coming from the inverter, through the disconnect switch, and to the batteries were going up as high as 150 degrees. This is not a dangerously high temperature by any means but this was at an ambient temperature of around 60 degrees so as a precautionary measure I moved the Battery temperature sender connected to the inverter to a secondary wire on the battery so it would read true battery temperature instead of wire temperature. I sent the results of my test to Relion as well as having a conversation with their tech department and they agreed that based off these results they would cover the battery replacement. The settings that I had entered the firefly for the charge rates had held the entire week that I was monitoring the coach and I saw no issues. Last Saturday ButchT reached out to me and we went over all the settings after he had taken an 11 day trip. The Float voltage had changed from 13.6 to 13.2. I have contacted Firefly and explained the symptoms, they immediately contacted me back and asked a few more questions about the floor plan and specifics about the coach. I am absolutely loving their new call center as they are answering everything in real time. I will keep everyone posted as I learn more.
Thank you,
Justin

[brobox]

Rob, I am sorry I do not know what single inverter those coaches have. Justin did just explain the situation with the coach in CA and what model of inverter. I hope John D will see this post and say which inverter he has. As Justin did state, FireFly did take an interest when he called. Others that find the problem also need to call as there is no way to fix the problem if they are not aware of the symptoms. This is what was involved in the 1.5.9 update is the number of program tests I did with my coach. If the owners of single inverter coach do not give input, it probable will be awhile before there is a fix without data input.

I do not have a single invert coach so I am not seeing the problem. Someone that is seeing a problem, it would be helpful to unplug from shore power and do a battery charge test. If the batteries level off in 10 minutes to 12.4 volt or below, the same problem has returned.

I will do another 1 hour unplug test on my coach and see if my batteries dropped as they did last week. If so, I will be on the phone to FireFly, Ted Cook and Justin to let them know, as the numbers are correct, but somehow not getting to the batteries? But I am showing that I am receiving 13.7v at float which is a full charge.

Rob I may reach out to you after I test my batteries again in a few days.

[Jimjensen]

Originally Posted by brobox

New information has come to light with the new single inverter coaches defaulting back to the low charging rate which will ruin your batteries from under charging.

John D. contracted me Sunday with this problem just starting. The defaults have reverted to Absorb 14.2 Absorb hours 2.5 and the float to 13.2v. The proper setting are Absorb Volts 14.7 Absorb Hours 3 and Float 13.6v This is in the Custom selection accessed from the Inverter page.

I spoke with Justin at NRIVC yesterday, the coach he just flew out to CA and took to up Vegas NIRVC, had the batteries replacement covered and updated the Vega Touch. The owner called Justin over the weekend and expressed the same settings had taken place on his 22. Both of these coaches are single inverter coaches.
My coach last week, which is a double invert and the setting on v 1.5.9 are holding correctly, however that batteries are not charging. I was at the coach to change the generator oil. Unplugged, the voltage stabilized at 12.8v which is acceptable. Left the coach unplugged while I changed the oil about 45 minutes. All that was on inside the coach was the light master, front of coach only and the upstairs refrigerator. The batteries had dropped to 12.3v. It oook 24 hours for the batteries to charge back to the float voltage of 13.6. That should have been done in the absorb time.

Something is still not right with the 1.5.9 update. With all of the hurricane repair problem still going on, I will not be involved doing the testing, etc. From past experience, Firefly is not to interested in correcting the battery charging issue until many people with the same problem start reporting their issues. If others want to keep their batteries in working condition, they might want to check the charging settings. Entegra only covers the batteries for 1 year. If the batteries a die from low charging, anything 13 month and beyond it will be $3.100 to replace. If the charging issue is not corrected the same thing will happen to the new batteries. I have gone as far as I can with this issue, it will be up to Firefly and Entegra to correct it. It will be interesting to hear if others setting have defaulted back to the lower settings that will not keep the batteries charged. FireFly's phone number is 574-825-4600

If any one is heading to Entegra with the low charging issue, perfect time for Firefly to see it first hand.

So my 23CS was set at 14.5 Absorb. 2 Absorb Hours and 13.2 Float. Not something I would normally be looking at on a new coach.
Thanks for making me aware of this issue!
JimJ

[brobox]

Originally Posted by Jimjensen

So my 23CS was set at 14.5 Absorb. 2 Absorb Hours and 13.2 Float. Not something I would normally be looking at on a new coach.
Thanks for making me aware of this issue!
JimJ

Jim, that is not good sending new 23's out with those settings. Thanks for pointing that out for other new owners. I sure hope someone at Entegra is paying attention.

[RVFunlovers]

I took a look at all the diesel full size Entegra’s at the super show in Tampa today.
All had the float charge on 13.7. Maybe they had just been set that was this morning but I went into the settings to grab a look and that was what they were all set at.

So far my coach has been holding the 13.6 float charge I set it on 4 days ago and has not dropped back to 13.2. That has been a good thing because for the past two days we have not had power at the show. We are parked with the AIM group and while we all paid for 30 AMP most of us have not had power and are running on batteries and generators.

I am trying not to push my batteries to hard but overall they are doing well. The weather has been pleasant out and that helps a lot.

[brobox]

Hal, glad your batteries are holding. What a great test. However, I am sure someone at AIM is not pleased. This is one of those times "that you'll never know when you'll need your batteries. Sometimes when you're always plugged in, you're not.

Are those 23's at the show? LD normally has the leftover previous year coaches at the show.

Are there any with the AIM group having to run the generator every 4 hours? If so, if they have not already, have them find Ted Cook so he can see the charging issue first hand. I know he is busy with the show, I have not heard back from him, but the expert is onsite.

I had a text from John D travel through TX. He reset his using his iphone and the settings are also holding for the past couple of days. Why would the charger settings mysteriously change, not hold the settings, then change and hold the settings? I am learning with the Vega Touch, the Nebula app with wifi at the coach is becoming my most valuable tool.

[RVFunlovers]

I think all the Entegra’s I saw were 23’s. I will look closer today.
The 23’s have the new emblem near the door that really stands out and the dash difference is obvious.

Looks like hundreds of RVs at the show do not have power when we were expecting 30 Amp connections. Some parking sections have power though. Hard to tell how often generators are running. Some people are running generators during the day to run the air conditioners if they have dogs inside.
So many RVs packed together the hum of a generator is always present.

I am a little surprised my float charge voltage is still 13.6. That has been holding for about 5 days now without reverting back to 13.2

[brobox]

Originally Posted by RVFunlovers

I think all the Entegra’s I saw were 23’s. I will look closer today.
The 23’s have the new emblem near the door that really stands out and the dash difference is obvious.

Looks like hundreds of RVs at the show do not have power when we were expecting 30 Amp connections. Some parking sections have power though. Hard to tell how often generators are running. Some people are running generators during the day to run the air conditioners if they have dogs inside.
So many RVs packed together the hum of a generator is always present.

I am a little surprised my float charge voltage is still 13.6. That has been holding for about 5 days now without reverting back to 13.2

Thanks for that update. Didn't think about the dogs and it's going to be 80 today. This charging issue is becoming "whatever" with Jimjensen reporting yesterday that his 23 came with extremely low charger setting from the factory. I have no idea what to make of what is going on anymore.

[mag150]

Just installed 1.5.11. Not alot of time to mess with it but believe settings were 13.7, 14.7 and 2.5. Made changes and hope it holds.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by mag150

Just installed 1.5.11. Not alot of time to mess with it but believe settings were 13.7, 14.7 and 2.5. Made changes and hope it holds.

Thank you. I had no updates available yesterday, on my way to check now.

[Ricci]

Hi - Just did the 1.5.11 update. It held the 13.6, 14.7 but dropped the time to 2.5 instead of the 3.0 on it previously. I had expected that it would go back to the same old numbers as it has in the past but surprised me. Now to see if it will hold for any length of time. For the light use we put the batteries through I'd not be upset if the absorb time cut to 2.5 hours but the charge rates seemed too low. We'll see if this is a fix for holding the rates as entered.


Tom

[brobox]

Originally Posted by brobox

Thank you. I had no updates available yesterday, on my way to check now.

Just arrived at the MH 1.5.11 is available and loading now. Hopefully firefly saw the problem and did a fix