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11-16-2013, 08:52 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL417
Just repeating what I had heard....hadn't investigated. Then again, they may have confused something on that chassis for a Hadley air system. I know nothing about the Bus chassis. Was talking last night to a Bus owner and he rattled off the name of the chassis and I had not heard of it. The problem is if you add Hadleys to the MM chassis, then folks want to know what you getting when you upgrade to the Cornerstone; of course they know little of the K3 chassis. There are a lot of little differences between the three lines that add up...obviously, the jump to K3 chassis with 600 HP engine is the BIG jump for Cornerstone. Taking Anthem to a K2 with 500 HP...just not sure Entegra would ever see the value equation to that approach. I hear that the all electric Bus is less $s than the Anthem, so Entegra may have to respond with something.
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Tiffin builds their own chassis for some of their coaches. It's called the "Powerglide". They hired the engineer who designed the Peak chassis for Western RVs Alpine Coach line.
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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11-16-2013, 09:54 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL417
Yep ... about $400K less ... I'm trying to understand the difference after visiting the Newmar and Entegra factories and seeing both...hard to see that much additional money. JMHO
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Have been looking at the Cornerstone and comparing to the Newmar Essex and King Aire. I just can't see the price differences between the Newmar product and the Newmar. A Cornerstone is more comparable to a King Aire when you look at chassis and power, yet priced even lower than the Essex which has a K2 Chassis and 500 HP. I have tried to get the Newmar reps to justify the price differences and all I keep hearing is "Comfort Drive" OK, so the wheels self center - for $400K more??? Don't get me wrong, the Newmar coaches are a quality product and the owners love 'em. But dollar for dollar, you can't beat the Entegras. Getting ready to order my 45K in the next 30 days. That 5 month wait will be tough!
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11-16-2013, 10:09 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL417
Just repeating what I had heard....hadn't investigated. Then again, they may have confused something on that chassis for a Hadley air system. I know nothing about the Bus chassis. Was talking last night to a Bus owner and he rattled off the name of the chassis and I had not heard of it. The problem is if you add Hadleys to the MM chassis, then folks want to know what you getting when you upgrade to the Cornerstone; of course they know little of the K3 chassis.
There are a lot of little differences between the three lines that add up...obviously, the jump to K3 chassis with 600 HP engine is the BIG jump for Cornerstone. Taking Anthem to a K2 with 500 HP...just not sure Entegra would ever see the value equation to that approach. I hear that the all electric Bus is less $s than the Anthem, so Entegra may have to respond with something.
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Dave,
You're correct re the Air leveling. Here's a post from another forum:
"The air option is just called Air Leveling and they do not state the manufacturer. I know it is not HWH for the air leveling. But I was told it was a full auto air leveling even in motion. So great and a feature I would surely want.
Here is a thread where I asked the same question...It seems that the system is by Valid Trueline...
viewtopic.php?f=118&t=56981
Here is the company... Auto Leveling Systems - Valid Manufacturing
What this poster also stated is the Bus uses Electric floors & was better:
"The floor is electric heat which is the right way to do it. If it was done via the AquaHot, as one other manufacturer does it, it takes 8 to 12 hours to heat the floor up. Yes, you read that right. The issue is all the layers it needs to go though. The larger issue is that the pumps on the AquaHot are running A LOT and thus so is your heater. As such, a lot more ware. Also, if using just electric for the AquaHot heat, it will take even longer based on the low BTU's. So then, if using the burner, diesel, you will be going though fuel.
I even called AquaHot about the use of it for heating a floor, they told me, while it can be and is used for that, it surely was not the intent based on the reasons mentioned above."
Don't know the science on this but I believe Cruzer did some BTU comparisons and said the electric floors don't have the same BTUs as the hydronic ... but again, that was for the Entegra DP and not the Tiffin Bus.
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11-16-2013, 10:29 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,874
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The major difference between Newmar and Entegra will always be customizing.
Newmar will do what ever ,especially with King Aire.
I once read on here that the Cornerstone K3 has some variation from other K3 chassis. I don't know if it's true or not. Hopefully someone who knows will come along and clarify.
The Entegra line is hard to beat in terms of value, more so at the Cornerstone level.
Layout was what put us into a Newmar, they built us what exactly we wanted.
__________________
2023 Jayco Alante 27A Ford F53 7.3L V8
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11-16-2013, 10:30 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Estero, FL
Posts: 2,528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippsfl
Have been looking at the Cornerstone and comparing to the Newmar Essex and King Aire. I just can't see the price differences between the Newmar product and the Newmar. A Cornerstone is more comparable to a King Aire when you look at chassis and power, yet priced even lower than the Essex which has a K2 Chassis and 500 HP. I have tried to get the Newmar reps to justify the price differences and all I keep hearing is "Comfort Drive" OK, so the wheels self center - for $400K more??? Don't get me wrong, the Newmar coaches are a quality product and the owners love 'em. But dollar for dollar, you can't beat the Entegras. Getting ready to order my 45K in the next 30 days. That 5 month wait will be tough! 
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I think the biggest difference between Newmar and Entegra is standard vs custom. Newmar will make many changes on the line and in the case of the Kingaire, I believe that they will custom make the whole bus. That means at each build, Newmar workers will be standing over a set of prints for your coach, to determine what needs to be done and how.
In the case of Entegra, their workers know exactly what they are going to put where, whether you like it there or not. Nobody stops to consult a set of prints or an engineer. With consistency comes standardization. So now, as an example, the wiring harnesses on an Entegra are made off line and just laid in place with everything being prewired and ready to plug in. No stringing individual wires off of huge spools, putting them in looms and terminating each wire like Newmar does. Imagine what a time saver just that is! Newmar wants you to compare their Kingaire with a Millennium or Marathon. If you do that, it’s a bargain!
__________________
Gary & Leigh
2019 Entegra Cornerstone 45Y,
2010 Seneca, 2011 & 2014 Anthem, 2017, 2018 Cornerstone(All Sold)
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11-16-2013, 10:52 AM
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#20
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 714
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While it is true that Newmar does custom work, that adds even more to the price difference. Newmar is happy to change things... for a price. So that price difference gets even higher if you deviate from the standard floorplan.
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11-16-2013, 12:00 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Blanchard, Idaho
Posts: 813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake62
Dave,
You're correct re the Air leveling. Here's a post from another forum:
"The air option is just called Air Leveling and they do not state the manufacturer. I know it is not HWH for the air leveling. But I was told it was a full auto air leveling even in motion. So great and a feature I would surely want.
Here is a thread where I asked the same question...It seems that the system is by Valid Trueline...
viewtopic.php?f=118&t=56981
Here is the company... Auto Leveling Systems - Valid Manufacturing
What this poster also stated is the Bus uses Electric floors & was better:
"The floor is electric heat which is the right way to do it. If it was done via the AquaHot, as one other manufacturer does it, it takes 8 to 12 hours to heat the floor up. Yes, you read that right. The issue is all the layers it needs to go though. The larger issue is that the pumps on the AquaHot are running A LOT and thus so is your heater. As such, a lot more ware. Also, if using just electric for the AquaHot heat, it will take even longer based on the low BTU's. So then, if using the burner, diesel, you will be going though fuel.
I even called AquaHot about the use of it for heating a floor, they told me, while it can be and is used for that, it surely was not the intent based on the reasons mentioned above."
Don't know the science on this but I believe Cruzer did some BTU comparisons and said the electric floors don't have the same BTUs as the hydronic ... but again, that was for the Entegra DP and not the Tiffin Bus.
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Sorry but the idea that it takes the Aqua Hot 8-12 hours to heat up the floors is simply idiotic, unless you are looking to fry an egg on your flooring.
Anyone who thinks electric is better, how about trading your hydronic Aqua Hot for electric floorboard heaters? The purpose of the floor heat should be to take the chill off the tile, as such, the pump is not going to run anymore than what it takes to heat up the room to +/- 68.
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11-16-2013, 12:28 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,597
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As a newmar owner I am very happy with my decision, for the level of coach I purchased. In the next year or two It will be time to upgrade, and the choice is either Essex or Cornerstone. As new floor plans come out, there will be more options, and assuming the 2 year warranty exists, Entegra will be very hard to pass up.
I added Active Air to accomplish the type of ride the cornerstone has.
I like comfort steer but I spend much more time living in the coach than driving so I have to weigh its value appropriately
__________________
2022 London Aire 4551 * 2022 GD Imagine 2800BH * 2021 RAM 3500 DRW * 2020 Wrangler
NHSO (Newmar Hoot, Sevierville Original)
Kindness Matters
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11-16-2013, 02:09 PM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Blanchard, Idaho
Posts: 813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron73
As a newmar owner I am very happy with my decision, for the level of coach I purchased. In the next year or two It will be time to upgrade, and the choice is either Essex or Cornerstone. As new floor plans come out, there will be more options, and assuming the 2 year warranty exists, Entegra will be very hard to pass up.
I added Active Air to accomplish the type of ride the cornerstone has.
I like comfort steer but I spend much more time living in the coach than driving so I have to weigh its value appropriately
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Red Baron, beautiful coach!
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11-16-2013, 03:57 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8,306
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I prefer Aquahot heated floors, because this feature can be used when dry camping, which can't be done with electric unless you run the generator fulltime. I find that the floor heat is noticeable within an hour, and toasty within a few hours. I don't think it runs the burner any more than you would heating the coach with Aquahot alone.
__________________
Marc and Jill, Wellington FL
2013 Entegra Anthem 44SL
2018 Lincoln MKX
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11-16-2013, 04:30 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 3,874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crippsfl
While it is true that Newmar does custom work, that adds even more to the price difference. Newmar is happy to change things... for a price. So that price difference gets even higher if you deviate from the standard floorplan.
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You might want to dig into that just a little deeper.
We were $3000 different between custom order and one on the lot. That was MSRP to MSRP. For the money we are all talking about, whose dream are you going to live in? Yours are somebody else?
__________________
2023 Jayco Alante 27A Ford F53 7.3L V8
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11-16-2013, 11:51 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 6,597
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Some of the custom things newmar did on my coach are:
1) replace wet cell battery with agm during build for the price difference
2) install hose reel
3) replace convection oven with GE advantium for the price difference
4) install extra cable for solar prewire
5) install extra power outlets
6) install preheat loop on oasis for engine
Can this type of customization be done on a cornerstone? Is there a option list when you special order? Others that order newmar have done much more customizing, but I am trying to get a feel for what level Entegra offers. I assume it will be like BMW, pick your colors, and a few options, and if it is not on the order sheet, then "not possible".
Does anyone have an entegra cornerstone order sheet they could post?
__________________
2022 London Aire 4551 * 2022 GD Imagine 2800BH * 2021 RAM 3500 DRW * 2020 Wrangler
NHSO (Newmar Hoot, Sevierville Original)
Kindness Matters
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11-17-2013, 12:31 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Estero, FL
Posts: 2,528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron73
Some of the custom things newmar did on my coach are: 1) replace wet cell battery with agm during build for the price difference 2) install hose reel 3) replace convection oven with GE advantium for the price difference 4) install extra cable for solar prewire 5) install extra power outlets 6) install preheat loop on oasis for engine Can this type of customization be done on a cornerstone? Is there a option list when you special order? Others that order newmar have done much more customizing, but I am trying to get a feel for what level Entegra offers. I assume it will be like BMW, pick your colors, and a few options, and if it is not on the order sheet, then "not possible". Does anyone have an entegra cornerstone order sheet they could post?
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If you look on the Entegra website, it tells you what options are available and how much they are. There are not many.
__________________
Gary & Leigh
2019 Entegra Cornerstone 45Y,
2010 Seneca, 2011 & 2014 Anthem, 2017, 2018 Cornerstone(All Sold)
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11-17-2013, 06:06 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 32,824
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron73
Some of the custom things newmar did on my coach are:
1) replace wet cell battery with agm during build for the price difference
2) install hose reel
3) replace convection oven with GE advantium for the price difference
4) install extra cable for solar prewire
5) install extra power outlets
6) install preheat loop on oasis for engine
Can this type of customization be done on a cornerstone? Is there a option list when you special order? Others that order newmar have done much more customizing, but I am trying to get a feel for what level Entegra offers. I assume it will be like BMW, pick your colors, and a few options, and if it is not on the order sheet, then "not possible".
Does anyone have an entegra cornerstone order sheet they could post?
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Don't get me wrong and I am glad you ordered the coach that you wanted and there is nothing wrong with a Newmar. If someone needs a custom coach, Entegra will not build it and might as well look elsewhere. They won't even change models on a Satellite Dish. I ordered an Entegra because most of those items came standard and the others I wouldn't use or I can change them out myself at a fraction of the cost, like the Satellite Dish change over kit. Just out of curisoity what was the price difference for the Newmar extras that are standard on an Entegra?
Personally I am glad not everybody has the same coach as I have. It's like my 62 Corvette, I am the only one in town.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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