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Old 09-26-2021, 05:19 PM   #1
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Cummins DEF "Patch" Now Available?

Per the link below, Cummins now has the DEF software patch available to "eligible" engine owners:

https://www.rvtravel.com/cummins-def...tch-rvt-1019b/

BG
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Old 09-26-2021, 06:54 PM   #2
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A useless attempt to quiet the masses over flawed logic (derating MHs) and extremely poor product failure response from the builders.
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Old 09-27-2021, 11:22 AM   #3
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Wow.... !!!!!!!!!!!!

What a haplessly ineffective response to a terrible situation..

Thanks Cummins .... so nice to see that you are more worried about paying to cure a problem owners have no responsibility for, than you are worried about the owners of your product or their problems.

Now, everyone stand on their head, flush like a toilet, and pray you don't have a problem

(I know that doesn't make any sense but was my father's saying when confronted by having to do something that made no sense to him....) Blaaaaah, blaaaaah, blaaaah, blaaaaah, blaaaaah, blaaaaah, blaaaaaaah.... bloviating nonsense.

AND, to the owners who actually came up with a fix that will resolve most owners problems short term with minimal inconvenience or danger, I nominate the group for the "Owners of the Year" award.

Now, how long (how many years) are owners guaranteed a free fix (head or software clarification) from Cummins/Spartan for this problem??

Gary
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Old 09-27-2021, 12:24 PM   #4
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I have to agree with the two previous posters. Inadequate response. The software fix should be available to any coach with the problematic def heads without having to wait for them to fail. Furthermore, all gen. 6 and earlier def heads should be replaced as soon as supply’s allow. Given that I couldn’t get through to Spartan when I tried to call last week on the instrument cluster recall I suspect the problem will persist. In the meantime I’ll go forward with the fix discussed on these forums.
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Old 09-27-2021, 04:20 PM   #5
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Cummins DEF "Patch" Now Available?

Thank you! And I agree. Iíve got parts ordered to build (need some help here) a simulator to carry for peace of mind. Cummins response would not give me the comfort of help ó- if youíve ever been in the middle of Yellowstone or Tetons their answer isnít worth the price of a cold cup of coffee if you have a problem.
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Old 09-27-2021, 04:50 PM   #6
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I was exactly where you are talking about for the past several weeks and was definitely anxiety provoking....The wind and snake rives valleys, while beautiful, were nowhere I wanted to wait for a tow truck or lowboy and I can't imagine how far it would have been to a Cummins shop to wait for several months for the spare head to arrive !!! Good Grief!

Cummins solution would have been no solution.

Gary
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Old 09-27-2021, 07:15 PM   #7
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Just to be fair, this is not solely Cummins decision. It is a negotiated decision by the EPA, Cummins, and any other industry type involved in this mess. Cummins provided the patch and the expertise to install it, but they did not have complete control over who or how a coach qualified for the patch.

The details of eligibility smack of EPA fears of abuse and unnecessary installation of an emissions override. It also represents a reactive, temporary solution rather than temporary preemptive protection.

No one here was part of the negotiations and discussions that produced these results. We don’t know which party pushed for such a limited solution, but Cummins does not build the failed sensors and does not install them, but programs derates because it is required.

I have no skin in this DEF game, but it is unfair, IMO, to dump the justifiable complaints about the very limited usefulness of the patch in the lap of Cummins.
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Old 09-27-2021, 07:59 PM   #8
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The buck has to stop somewhere. The problem is nobody owns it and Entegra, Spartan, Shaw, Cummins have played hot potato with their customers. Could have, should have stayed with my gas Ford Coachman MH. What I gained in luxury I gave up in security and reliability. Ford and Coachman ALWAYS stood behind their product even after my basic warranty expired.
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Old 09-27-2021, 08:00 PM   #9
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I am one that would have benefited from the "patch." Both of my DEF heads fail while at home, 6 miles from Cummins. I had a few weeks wait for replacement sensors. Had I been ready to leave on a trip, I could have driven the 6 miles to Cummins, had the override programmed in and made my trip.
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Old 09-28-2021, 10:09 AM   #10
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This whole def issue is a mess and the lack of competition hasnít helped. In the old days we had CAT, Cummins and Detroit competing for the golden ring and they worked through the night to win the wars with the competition

Now we have one engine company and to make maters worse we have only 2 frame builders. Then the RV companies themselves just play follow the leader without any real innovations.
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Old 09-29-2021, 06:01 AM   #11
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This is not any help to someone stranded in the middle of nowhere needing to be towed to a Cummins place hundreds of miles away. It does not resolve the safety issue. The people making the rules donít know donít care about the consequences. It is particularly disgusting that the system can be doing its job and only the sensor has failed.
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Old 09-29-2021, 06:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butte64 View Post
This is not any help to someone stranded in the middle of nowhere needing to be towed to a Cummins place hundreds of miles away. It does not resolve the safety issue. The people making the rules donít know donít care about the consequences. It is particularly disgusting that the system can be doing its job and only the sensor has failed.
The way I read it is when the sensor fails the system does not keep on working, it shuts down and stops working.
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Old 09-29-2021, 06:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljwt330 View Post
Just to be fair, this is not solely Cummins decision. It is a negotiated decision by the EPA, Cummins, and any other industry type involved in this mess. Cummins provided the patch and the expertise to install it, but they did not have complete control over who or how a coach qualified for the patch.

The details of eligibility smack of EPA fears of abuse and unnecessary installation of an emissions override. It also represents a reactive, temporary solution rather than temporary preemptive protection.

No one here was part of the negotiations and discussions that produced these results. We donít know which party pushed for such a limited solution, but Cummins does not build the failed sensors and does not install them, but programs derates because it is required.

I have no skin in this DEF game, but it is unfair, IMO, to dump the justifiable complaints about the very limited usefulness of the patch in the lap of Cummins.
I completely agree. The problem does not originate with Cummins but with the EPA. The derate system is a way for them to inflict punishment upon people for not fixing their DEF problem fast enough to their liking. Here in the US punishment is not meted out except by due process. Somebody needs to challenge this in Federal court.
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Old 09-29-2021, 06:40 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobG88 View Post
Per the link below, Cummins now has the DEF software patch available to "eligible" engine owners:

https://www.rvtravel.com/cummins-def...tch-rvt-1019b/

BG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbojack View Post
The way I read it is when the sensor fails the system does not keep on working, it shuts down and stops working.
Turbojack, if all that you've read regarding the DEF sensor failure issue is the article linked by BobG88, it's understandable that you might conclude that the DEF system "shuts down and stops working" when the sensor fails.

My understanding is that there's a high likelihood that the DEF system continues to properly function properly even after the sensor fails. The DEF system continues to meter DEF fluid into the exhaust stream where it continues to chemically react with nitrogen oxide to convert the nitrogen oxide to nitrogen and water.

Your emission control system continues to monitor the exhaust, downstream from where the DEF is injected, for the presence of nitrogen oxide. IF nitrogen oxide is present, a derate will occur due to nitrogen oxide in the exhaust.

Here's an excerpt from this RVTravel article (https://www.rvtravel.com/bad-def-sen...ts-human-toll/) that describes that:

Wouldnít that cause air pollution?

It shouldnít. The problem seems to be not bad DEF but, rather, an incorrect reporting of a DEF situation due to malfunctioning monitors. If the EPA were to allow this reprogramming, even if bad DEF were present, thereís a backup system to stop the problem. These diesel rigs are also equipped with nitrogen oxide sensors. If the DEF system were truly NOT working, and the rig began to produce harmful levels of pollutants, these other sensors would catch it. From there, the engine control computer is alerted, and warnings (and de-rates) would kick in.


Take care,
Stu
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