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Old 03-27-2014, 08:02 PM   #57
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Not to get off topic, I am extremely concerned to find out who actually delivers the coaches, I Myself want to get a coach every 2 years or so I however have issues that a driver should have reported. I also don't want to feel overwhelmed that im going to spend the entire time of 2 years on issues
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:36 PM   #58
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When our Cornerstone was delivered to LD in Tucson, we took a test drive before buying and noticed a very big vibration on the passenger side of the coach. Come to find out that the tires were not balanced AT ALL! The driver who delivered the coach to LD drove that coach all the way to AZ like that. Out of balance. WOW! If I were that driver I would have call it in or drove it back to the manufacturing plant. That vibration was very noticeable. We had LDís fix that problem before we bought it.
After buying the coach It spent some time in maintenance at LDís with things that needed to be fixed. We have major problems with paint bubbling on both sided of the coach and orange peel (We are bringing it back to Middleberry in the summer for the paint issue) along with cargo doors flying open while driving down the freeway mostly turning corners. (LDís told us we should close the door properly and lock them. KISS MY A*&!) We had an American coach for 10.5 years before this coach. I think we know how to check to see if the doors are closed and locked. (I donít think they did anything to the doors). We have a different company that is working on our coach and they have tightened up the latches on the cargo doors and with our last trip the doors still fly open. Our coach is in to be fixed again due to the microwave not working and we had a problem with that thing from the beginning.
Moving on, if you look under the slide-outs, OMG the screws are tilted sideways. They are not flush to the underside of the slide-out and some screws are missing or broken off.
We still have issues to be taken care of. I do realize that new coaches go through things going wrong. IMHO, that coach should have never left the manufacturing plant. Where is the quality control? I know that the items will be fixed in time but for a half million dollar coach, we would like to drive it to RV parks and not maintenance buildings.
Sorry, I know it sounds like complaining, but come on! We never had this many problems with our other coach.
Iím thinking that Entegra is selling so many coaches that they are just throwing them together and shipping them out with problems for others to deal with. IMHO
I know things will be fixed and Iím sure that we will come to love the coach when all is said and done. Itís just frustrating!
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:52 AM   #59
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"If an Entegra salesman said "...it may not be right, but Entegra will make it that way.." I'd like to know the name of the Entegra rep at the Tampa show that said that (you have a choice, Joyce, Pat, PJ, Ted Cook or Mr. Bontrager). I have a hard time believing they would admit that it left there place "not right" (I'd be more likely to believe that came from a LD guy)...although we as buyers know they do. "

I was the one who had this conversation and, yes, it was one of those Entegra representatives. I don't think the statement was made to imply that Entegra would purposely send out product that was substandard. It was more of a statement to say "it is a complicated piece of equipment, issues do come up, and we will address them." My expectations were not lowered by the comment. I would rather hear a realistic statement like that than, "Your coach will be absolutely perfect when it arrives in every way!" when I know it is unlikely.

How many new coaches from ANY manufacturer show up in perfect condition? I dare say very few. Issues occur with ALL manufacturers (even Newmar, hard as that may seem to believe)
How they are handled is the issue.

In Chuck's case, it is hard for me to understand how LD would tell him that the problems were all resolved when they were not.
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:34 AM   #60
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In all fairness to LD and the two tech that Joyce sent down to take care of seven pages of punch list items.......90% of the items were completed. What I could not accept is major a major air leaks after they fixed the one we could hear. Our safety was not important enough to check if that was the only leak, it was not. The poor attempt to repair the paint and one area that was not even address which was the front 3M mask. One persons says it is the paint underneath, the next says the film was put on in to cold of weather. All I know, it is not fixed. I am glad this is an Entegra and they ARE standing behind the coach to get the items I will not accept corrected. I also have the screaming jacks that I just discovered. I know that all new MH's have problems, I leaned what I know about MH by fixing those problems, but I did expect a coach that was safe to drive and looked like a new MH when it arrived. Now that it is going to the factory I am sure everything is gong to be taken care of by those that care.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:13 AM   #61
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Good Luck, Chuck. I am confident that Joyce and her team will make it right. It is just a shame that you are waiting so long for final delivery and the fact that you end up with another 2500 miles on a "new" vehicle. At this point, I probably would want to go to Middlebury to take the final delivery instead of back to FL.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:41 AM   #62
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[QUOTE=14 Cornerstone;1986381]..... The driver who delivered the coach to LD drove that coach all the way to AZ like that. Out of balance. WOW! If I were that driver I would have call it in or drove it back to the manufacturing plant. [\QUOTE]

IMO, it is unrealistic to expect the delivery driver to demand things be fixed. What may be a major imperfection issue for the buyer paying big bucks for his new dream coach is usually of no concern, or at best just a minor annoyance, for the typical delivery driver.

Delivery drivers get paid very little, and then only if the dealer signs for the coach. In short, he is only paid to drive, and if it arrives in one piece he has done his job. The cost for his return trip to PU the "next" coach leave him poorly compensated for the total time involved, and with no reason to fret over issues that won't leave him "broke down" and wasting HIS time.

If we need / want these guys to become an integral part of the QC process, they will want to be paid accordingly. Otherwise, they will continue to only check the oil & coolant, fill the tires to the max pressure, and run as fast as possible to the dealer. That's not to say they won't mention a driving problem upon arrival, but if they did, there is no assurance the dealer would investigate or fix it,........until the buyer complains. Sad, but true, all too often IMO.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:44 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Crippsfl View Post
Good Luck, Chuck. I am confident that Joyce and her team will make it right. It is just a shame that you are waiting so long for final delivery and the fact that you end up with another 2500 miles on a "new" vehicle. At this point, I probably would want to go to Middlebury to take the final delivery instead of back to FL.
Thank you and yes, I also feel that Joyce and team will make it right. We are going to Middlebury to take delivery and make a spring trip out of it with a stay in Shipshewana for a week. That will give us time with the coach while we are there.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:11 PM   #64
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Once people start walking and sales go down because a dealer can't deliver a coach in an appropriate manner things will change. It's not the industry that's the problem it's the buyers, we allow this to go on. I'll tell you what give me $350,000 and I'll build a coach for you. Oh yeah by the way there maybe some problems with it at delivery.
I agree! Our cars have less bugs than these! I know that they are smaller, but they are less money. I've had cars repainted, wheels swapped out and more......even when I've gotten a real deal on a car.

I've also bought a German car that never had 1 issue, EVER.

Plus these coaches are made by people....not machines, in the auto industry that's a selling point.

It seems perfect for the manufactures who can slip things past the less educated.

I'm not saying Entegra isn't fixing it but if we buy a coach new, it will be our house, that I need far from Indiana. Will they cover my rent when the coach is getting warranty work? No, I'm on my own...for those without ties and schedules this may not seem bad but for me it's a deal breaker.
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Old 03-28-2014, 12:25 PM   #65
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[QUOTE=Mr_Mechanica;1985841 [/QUOTE]
Just wondering about the black line through your profile title of your "on order" new Coach?

------2015 Entegra Anthem 44B order slipped to July delivery-------
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Old 03-28-2014, 01:56 PM   #66
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I agree! Our cars have less bugs than these! I know that they are smaller, but they are less money. I've had cars repainted, wheels swapped out and more......even when I've gotten a real deal on a car.

I've also bought a German car that never had 1 issue, EVER.

Plus these coaches are made by people....not machines, in the auto industry that's a selling point.

It seems perfect for the manufactures who can slip things past the less educated.

I'm not saying Entegra isn't fixing it but if we buy a coach new, it will be our house, that I need far from Indiana. Will they cover my rent when the coach is getting warranty work? No, I'm on my own...for those without ties and schedules this may not seem bad but for me it's a deal breaker.
Duh! They slipped another on past me! I guess fat, drunk and stupid is a way to go through life!,
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:03 PM   #67
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Old 03-28-2014, 02:15 PM   #68
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Quality Control, Dealer PDIs and service departments are, for the most part, post manufacturing processes performed that were performed, IN SOME CASES, buy minimum or just over minimum wage local employees with insufficient training and supervision.

Cars have fewer problems for two reasons: 1) they are less complicated and 2) a higher percentage of manufacturing is robotic.

What you pay for the motorhome, $300k, $500k, or whatever, is, in some cases, irrelevant if the manufacturer does not take money and time to properly train, supervise, and maintain their employees.

The motorhome industry took a nose-dive several years back; some manufacturers restructured, some went under, some were bought out, and in a few instances some (Tiffin, Winnebago, Jayco), survived but with significant lay-offs and production slow-downs.

As with any money making organization when the slump started the first cut-backs were in non-production areas, i.e. Quality Control, Training, etc. So who trained the new hires??


IMHO, the recovery from the slump is where the downward trend in quality started. As each of these companies ramped up, they discovered that some or many of their experienced, quality employees, that had been laid off, had moved on to other jobs and they were left with hiring inexperienced/untrained personnel.


As someone else has already mentioned, the nature of forums tends toward the negative. I was fortunate, or maybe just part of the silent majority, that purchased a new motorhome from a dealer's inventory and moved into it from day-one as a full-timer. Granted I had some problems, but not many, and none that every prevented me from living or traveling in it. That was 50,000 miles and 48 months ago. Granted, I have had to stay in a dealer or manufacturers parking lot on a few occasions, but I have lived and slept in this beast each and every day for the last 4 years. Maybe I was lucky to get a motorhome produced just before the slump started.

It's not all doom and gloom. 35,000 to 40,000 motorhomes are delivered to dealers each year, In fact, 3,737 in Feb of this year alone, according to RVIA. I think the few, and granted, horrible stories on this and other forums is a positive, not negative, characterization of the industry as a whole, else we would be seeing a lot, lot more.

Expecting or anticipating 1-2 years to work out bugs, in my experience, is not the NORM or to be expected. At any rate, that has been my experience with 3 motorhomes and 9 years as a full-timer.

I'm sure others will disagree with my opinions and logic, but they cannot refute my experience.
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Old 03-28-2014, 03:05 PM   #69
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Hey, that's Mr. Bum to you!!
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:42 PM   #70
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Quality Control, Dealer PDIs and service departments are, for the most part, post manufacturing processes performed that were performed, IN SOME CASES, buy minimum or just over minimum wage local employees with insufficient training and supervision.

Cars have fewer problems for two reasons: 1) they are less complicated and 2) a higher percentage of manufacturing is robotic.

What you pay for the motorhome, $300k, $500k, or whatever, is, in some cases, irrelevant if the manufacturer does not take money and time to properly train, supervise, and maintain their employees.

The motorhome industry took a nose-dive several years back; some manufacturers restructured, some went under, some were bought out, and in a few instances some (Tiffin, Winnebago, Jayco), survived but with significant lay-offs and production slow-downs.

As with any money making organization when the slump started the first cut-backs were in non-production areas, i.e. Quality Control, Training, etc. So who trained the new hires??


IMHO, the recovery from the slump is where the downward trend in quality started. As each of these companies ramped up, they discovered that some or many of their experienced, quality employees, that had been laid off, had moved on to other jobs and they were left with hiring inexperienced/untrained personnel.


As someone else has already mentioned, the nature of forums tends toward the negative. I was fortunate, or maybe just part of the silent majority, that purchased a new motorhome from a dealer's inventory and moved into it from day-one as a full-timer. Granted I had some problems, but not many, and none that every prevented me from living or traveling in it. That was 50,000 miles and 48 months ago. Granted, I have had to stay in a dealer or manufacturers parking lot on a few occasions, but I have lived and slept in this beast each and every day for the last 4 years. Maybe I was lucky to get a motorhome produced just before the slump started.

It's not all doom and gloom. 35,000 to 40,000 motorhomes are delivered to dealers each year, In fact, 3,737 in Feb of this year alone, according to RVIA. I think the few, and granted, horrible stories on this and other forums is a positive, not negative, characterization of the industry as a whole, else we would be seeing a lot, lot more.

Expecting or anticipating 1-2 years to work out bugs, in my experience, is not the NORM or to be expected. At any rate, that has been my experience with 3 motorhomes and 9 years as a full-timer.

I'm sure others will disagree with my opinions and logic, but they cannot refute my experience.
Good post. Count me as among the silent majority. My coach had some initial problems but I consider them minor and all were addressed within a few months and I am very satisfied with it. It did not take two years or even one year to straighten it out.

I'm not sure about the new hire after the slump theory, as I heard plenty of similar gripes online before the great recession, in the heyday of RV production. I think there is always a small percentage of coaches that will make these pages and make it sound like all RVs are coming out in poor condition. But with a few exceptions the reality is that most of the RVs are delivered in pretty good shape if the buyer's expectations are realistic.
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