Day after tomorrow

[loisjop]

So, for whatever this is worth to anyone listening at Entegra. I will not be buying a used 2013 or 2014 Entegra. There is no way I'll be at the end of the "As Is" purchase agreement for a used coach.

Buy a Tiffin instead, I'm sure you'll be a lot happier.

[cucotx]

Originally Posted by loisjop

So, for whatever this is worth to anyone listening at Entegra. I will not be buying a used 2013 or 2014 Entegra. There is no way I'll be at the end of the "As Is" purchase agreement for a used coach.

Buy a Tiffin instead, I'm sure you'll be a lot happier.

So far, I have researched Newmar and Entegra.

From what I know so far, the biggest problem for me with Newmar is the 450 HP engine in the FL chassis not delivering enough power. To get to 600 HP and K3 Spartan chassis, you need to buy the King Aire, which is mucho $$$$ and way too flashy/shiny, "almost like walking into a hotel lobby", says the DW.

The Entegra Cornertone has the K3 Chassis, and the woodsy home feel that the DW likes, but now this about quality issues ...

I have not looked into Tiffin yet. So the first question would be, does Tiffin make a 600 hp DP and use the K3 Spartan chassis?

[TerryO]

It's funny how the few with issues dominate the discussion and many of the posts are from non-owners. I for one have very few issues and EC customer service is outstanding. I would hate to have to satisfy some.

[cucotx]

Originally Posted by TerryO

It's funny how the few with issues dominate the discussion and many of the posts are from non-owners. I for one have very few issues and EC customer service is outstanding. I would hate to have to satisfy some.

Unsatisfied customers can be viewed as a way for companies to get feedback that improve their processes. I think it doesn't hurt in the long run for growing companies to expend some of their income growth on improvement to their quality department.

You ignore quality and you lose future sales.

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by cucotx

So far, I have researched Newmar and Entegra. From what I know so far, the problem with Newmar seems to be the 450 HP engine in the FL chassis not delivering enough power. To get to 600 HP and K3 Spartan chassis, you need to buy the King Aire, which is mucho $$$$ and way too flashy/shiny, "almost like walking into a hotel lobby", says the DW. The Entegra Cornertone has the K3 Chassis, and the woodsy home feel that the DW likes, but now this about quality issues ... I have not looked into Tiffin yet. So the first question would be, does Tiffin make a 600 hp DP and use the K3 Spartan chassis?

I don't own an Entegra but I have lived full time in a DP for 7 years now and have driven and ridden in many DPs. I think you are too quick to dismiss the current production ISL powering these coaches. Is the ISX15 more powerful? Yes, but you are also hanging an extra 1500-2000 pounds back there behind the drive/tag axles. The GVWR goes up 5,000 pounds and the drive axle ratio goes from 4.88 with the ISL to 3.73 with the ISX.

Before you go further, you need to visit some dealers and test drive some coaches. Even that ISX15 600 hp which is the current power leader will be at about 80 pounds per one hp. If you have the most underpowered car you can imagine with 100 hp which weighs 3000 pounds that is 30 pounds per hp. Expectations and driving technique must be adjusted to reality.

[cucotx]

Originally Posted by Steve Ownby

... Even that ISX15 600 hp which is the current power leader will be at about 80 pounds per one hp ...

I hope to be doing mostly boondocking. So, I'm planning to be adding a few thousand pounds of solar panels and batteries to the RV. For my needs, I'll most likely have to go with a 600 HP engine with more than 1800 lb-ft of torque, tag axle, front axle of more than 17000 lbs, etc. I'm definitely limited in the number of coaches that I can select from.

With more coaches going all electric, and more people wanting solar, may be 600 hp will be more the norm in the future.

[zman62]

People backing out of deals? People looking at another brands? All this because of Chuck's poor quality delivery? Come on, How many great deliveries have there been? How many stories have been posted about incredibly good customer service? Go read about the Newmar issues on their forum or even worse Tiffen. I can't imagine if I have done my research correctly that I would jump ship because we hear of a bad delivery on our forum.

I have built multimillion dollar homes for years. Lots of different products all shipped to one location and assembled by many different people. Most move in/walk throughs go well. Others have been plauged with problems. The ones with problems you just have to step up to the plate to make things right. Then go back an try and determine what caused this. Poor quality products or poor workmanship? I think there is a fine line between being too picky and just being asked to accept a poorly built product. I know this, during a walk through if something is discovered the we flat out missed then there is a microscope out for the rest of the walk through.

Entegra is not perfect. They do build a great product and back it with excellent customer service. As far as what is available out there I dont think anyone can match their bang for the buck.

[zman62]

Originally Posted by cucotx

I hope to be doing mostly boondocking. So, I'm planning to be adding a few thousand pounds of solar panels and batteries to the RV. For my needs, I'll most likely have to go with a 600 HP engine with more than 1800 lb-ft of torque, tag axle, front axle of more than 17000 lbs, etc. I'm definitely limited in the number of coaches that I can select from.

With more coaches going all electric, and more people wanting solar, may be 600 hp will be more the norm in the future.

I currently tow a 21k pound trailer with my isl 400. It works great.

[wmpbauer]

Cucotx,

This is where a blog does disservice to a company's good reputation. You have to make your own decision based on the preponderance of evidence, and most of the happy people are not talking in here or anywhere else. So you're left with a few people who have some complaints that get together and gripe. Since they're the only voices talking, the preponderance of evidence seems overwhelmingly negative.

I am happy to report that by and large, Entegra owners are overwhelmingly happy with their coaches. I was recently at the FMCA International Family Reunion in Perry, Ga, where we had a nice group of Entegra owners gathered. In fact, they like them so much that a couple of owners are going to be repeat buyers in the very near future! I like mine so much that I started the Entegra Coach Owners Association last August, and we've grown to 140 member coaches in just the first 6 months. They are not unhappy owners!

On balance, there are occasional problems. But they are not the same problem repeated in coach after coach: a kink here, a bit of grout, a little stain, a hinge there....they all get taken care of by the finest Customer Service department that I've ever encountered. I'm not trying to downplay what has happened to brobox. But I've talked at length with with him, and understand that Entegra Coach is addressing his concerns, some of which should also be owned by the dealer. This is a complex INDUSTRY with some very real flaws. But Entegra's reputation is not in question in my opinion.

Pat Bauer, President
Entegra Coach Owners Association

[wnytaxman]

Very well said Pat.

I've been following this thread and HDriver's thread about his issues with his new Tiffin. Both rigs were delivered in less than satisfactory condition by the same dealer. Could this be more of a dealer problem than a manufacturer issue?

[DSL417]

I have been driving for three weeks in the Southern Rockies with my "underpowered" 450 ISL and pulling 6800 pounds of toys in addition to a Hydralift and MC on the back of the coach for an additional 1500#s. The most I slowed going up a 7 degree incline for about two miles was to 45 mph. Yes I'd like the K3 chassis, but the K2 w/ 450 ISL and 1650 ft lbs of torque does just fine.

As to turning off Entegra because of problems...on one coach, that exploded in this thread...well that seems myopic if my read of Newmar, AC, Winnebago, TIFFIN, and about a half a dozen other coach threads is any indication. Discussion of quality and quality control processes is and INDUSTRY issue. :bang head:

As to the poster who changed their mind about a 13/14 coach...did I miss something here , or have the majority of posters pointed to shaking out the issues DURING THE TWO YEAR WARRANTEE. But yes, buy another brand...they don't have issues after their ONE YEAR WARRANTEE:roll eyes:

Of course you can avoid the issue by car or air travel. Hotels don't have these kinds of problems:roll eyes: And to pack your golf clubs...thats's and extra $150 on the flight (plus you'll be limited on what you wear unless you're ready to pay $50/bag). And flying is getting more comfortable every dayLet's see...hotel prices have increased 30% in the last two years, but they do include a great breakfast The resort hotels will cost $300-500/night; and who knows who slept in that bed last night (ever found human or dog hair on the sheets)...gawd, I could go on and on, but yes, don't buy a coach. Travel a different way.

Bottom line...I guess you can come to whatever conclusion you want in this thread and justify it in your own mind...and there will be a lot of them that lead you to a less than accurate conclusion:bang head: Cheers and JMHO.

[cucotx]

Pat,

Thanks for the great response.

Brobox, do you think that some of your problems may just be falling through the cracks. That is, finger pointing between LD and Entegra? I mean, as long as someone is signing on to resolve each problem ...

From everything I have read in this forum and else where, Entegra seems to be committed to a quality product. For example, I think their 2 year coach warranty may just be a way for them to show that they will stand behind any quality issues that they suspect that they may currently have due to their growing sales. They may just need time to improve overall quality. If so, that would make them even a better RV manufacturer in the long run ...

But, time will tell. Not much history behind the Entegra Cornerstone to know how well they will hold up on the road. But, if they do hold up well, a used Conerstone may be the coach that will do what I need. Its inside is also already approved by the DW

[MRUSA14]

I would rather have an Entegra with TWO year warranty than any other brand with ONE year warranty. It was a big factor in my decision to buy Entegra. A year goes by mighty fast, and many problems can pop up in year two.

I am very satisfied with my Anthem. It would take a lot to move me to another brand.

IMHO, this thread has been way overblown and many here have unfairly condemned Entegra. You have to judge Enetgra in the context of the product which is a complicated MOTORHOME, not a car. If you read the Newmar, Tiffen, American Coach or Winnebago forums you will find that problems occur on all brands. The difference is that Entegra provides twice the warranty and stands behind what they build as well or better than anyone.

Like DSL says, if you can't stand the idea of fixing it, don't buy a motorhome. It is in the nature of the beast. Those that say these things should be perfect are dreaming.

[rhusak]

Hi All..
I have been lurk on this forum for over a year.. Yeah, I am a serious wanna be. I adopted a 04 DS40 Travel Supreme about a year ago. Have I had issues.. Some but not enough that I egret the purchase.. We wanted 4 slides and a quality bones and we got that in spades! It is still a beautiful, comfortable well engineered coach. It is what I could afford and would one day like to upgrade to a Entegra if I live long enough..
I spent all of my working live associated in some way with the Automobile industry. I saw the changes first hand from the 50's through the present. And many of you know there has been a major shift.
There were several things that drove these changes IMHO. First was competition.. Especially from the Japanese. This was precipitated by the energy crises in the 70's. This drove consumers to these much smaller more fuel efficient cars and trucks.. And guess what they were pretty durable. No matter that just before this the American consumer was buying every piece of Detroit Iron that the manufactures could bolt together.
Next was the passing of real lemon laws. Manufacturers would do anything to keep from buying a vehicle back. Independent arbitrators and realistic time lines "made" them work problems out. I realize that not all the states laws are equal or some don't even have any.. But it's a slow process cause its political!
Finally is the whole quality rating issue by people like JD power and Consumers reports. Sure some say that is on new vehicles only and such.. Well just look at the comments our new delivery comments on forums like this create. Manufacturers do pay attention to these... And so do customers!
Our industry will eventually change.. But as long as people buy anything that some manufacturers put out cause this still is a very impulse driven purchase it will be slow changing.. Maybe having an independent inspector check things BEFORE we accept delivery would help..
I for one am hoping I will live long enough to "Upgrade" again..
Ron Husak