Day after tomorrow

[edgray]

Originally Posted by Crippsfl

I have read posts on this thread saying that a 2 year bumper to bumper is no big deal. If it is no big deal, why did Newmar cancel their 3 year warranty????

Since you asked, , I was at the Newmar rally where the Newmar warranty reversion was announced by then President Dick Parks. I think he claimed (explained) that the cost of their warranty claims originating in the last few months of the third year exceeded the cost of all second year claims combined. IOW, owners were "saving up" and then having everything repaired to "like new" condition (after almost 3 years of use) just before their warranties expired. As posted above, they also believed they were at a competitive dis-advantage because the "rest" of the RV industry did not follow their lead, but had stuck to only paying for 1 year worth of issues.
Personally, I think EC offering a 2 year warranty IS a big deal.

[Crippsfl]

Originally Posted by edgray

Since you asked, , I was at the Newmar rally where the Newmar warranty reversion was announced by then President Dick Parks. I think he claimed (explained) that the cost of their warranty claims originating in the last few months of the third year exceeded the cost of all second year claims combined. IOW, owners were "saving up" and then having everything repaired to "like new" condition (after almost 3 years of use) just before their warranties expired. As posted above, they also believed they were at a competitive dis-advantage because the "rest" of the RV industry did not follow their lead, but had stuck to only paying for 1 year worth of issues.
Personally, I think EC offering a 2 year warranty IS a big deal.

Warranty claims are a cost for ANY product. Newmar did not discontinue the longer warranty because they were at a "competitive disadvantage", it was based on costs of the claims. Does Entegra plaster the windshields of their coaches at shows, advertising a 2 year warranty as a competitive disadvantage? It is exactly the opposite. Why does Newmar rave about Comfort Drive? Because they see it as an advantage over competition. Marketing 101.

Time is a cruel mistress (as I look in the mirror.) The longer the warranty the more things go wrong. I personally don't think that folks "save up" warranty issues until the end of the warranty. Maybe some Entegra owners who have had there coaches for over 2 years can confirm or deny that theory.

As was stated in an earlier post, most issues do occur in the first year. If a component is going to fail it usually does it sooner than later. However, I still like the security of knowing that I do have 2 years. I think that there were more than a few Newmar customers who were not happy when they modified their warranty.

[DSL417]

I guess I'd disagree with a little of what you say, Ralph, and agree with a lot more. I am visiting the factory, at some expense because it is out of the way for our travel plans, this fall to take care of a moderate punch list, some of which couldn't be handled in the four days I was there last year (and week at Precision). Then there are some items that we've saved up with the expectation of visiting the factory late in our two year warrantee; some of this is undoubtably two years wear...so I can see Newmar owners saving up stuff to late in a former three year warrantee, if, for no other reason than Northern Indiana is not in the byway for a lot of Summer travel (unless you're going to MI, which by the way is a nice place to spend a Summer month). And I do believe that a three year warrantee could be significantly more costly for a B2B warrantee...not so much for construction as for the OEM stuff.

I agree that Comfort Drive is their BIG claim to superiority from a marketing perspective. While I haven't driven one with it, their clientele certainly sings its praises. Was it worth an extra $50K over an equivalent Anthem (to MA)...not for me. The two year warrantee was worth more to me.

That said, you're on the money with competitive advantages and disadvantages. I'm at the 1.5 year point, and I continue to see minor OEM failures in year two. Shade motors, AC fans and black boxes, etc that will happen with any high quality coach manufacturer, because this OEM is generally the best available that I am aware (although I haven't looked at the models of stuff in a Prevost). So I'm damn glad I have two years...and I'm not surprised that Newmar would offer two years for KA (although I am still baffled by their pricing of their other Aire models and why they don't offer it on them as well). Two years IS a big deal for me...strong enough for me to consider and upgrade to CS early next year (wished they had other floor plans) when I hit the two year point. We'll see.

But overall, good post and reasoning...it continues to be interesting to watch marketing and evolution of Newmar and Entegra posture against each other, as they are clearly at the top in this mid-price range coach, JMHO.

[edgray]

Originally Posted by Crippsfl

Warranty claims are a cost for ANY product. Newmar did not discontinue the longer warranty because they were at a "competitive disadvantage", it was based on costs of the claims. Does Entegra plaster the windshields of their coaches at shows, advertising a 2 year warranty as a competitive disadvantage? It is exactly the opposite. Why does Newmar rave about Comfort Drive? Because they see it as an advantage over competition. Marketing 101.

Time is a cruel mistress (as I look in the mirror.) The longer the warranty the more things go wrong. I personally don't think that folks "save up" warranty issues until the end of the warranty. Maybe some Entegra owners who have had there coaches for over 2 years can confirm or deny that theory.

As was stated in an earlier post, most issues do occur in the first year. If a component is going to fail it usually does it sooner than later. However, I still like the security of knowing that I do have 2 years. I think that there were more than a few Newmar customers who were not happy when they modified their warranty.

Perhaps I didn't explain it correctly. YES, you're right, it was because of claim costs. By "competitive dis-advantage" they admitted they needed to cover (or recover) their claim costs (from providing the additional 2 years) by adding $$ to the pricing of new coaches, and THAT was putting them at a dis-advantage with their competitors. Obviously, some of this is my interpretation of their comments, because executives rarely speak so bluntly, but that was the essence of the comments they made. To be clear, Newmar didn't "modify" the warranty on current models, and certainly could not reduce the length of warranty on coaches already sold, but rather they announced that the next model year they would be returning to offering only 1 year warranty.

I apologize to the OP for taking this thread so far off topic. Ed

[edgray]

Originally Posted by DSL417

.......... So I'm damn glad I have two years...and I'm not surprised that Newmar would offer two years for KA (although I am still baffled by their pricing of their other Aire models and why they don't offer it on them as well). Two years IS a big deal for me...strong enough for me to consider and upgrade to CS early next year (wished they had other floor plans) when I hit the two year point. We'll see......

DSL417: Apparently I was WRONG when I implied the KA has a 2 yr warranty. According to the online brochures, and the Newmar website, ALL their coaches have a one year warranty. Sorry for any confusion I may have created. Ed

[Crippsfl]

Originally Posted by edgray

Perhaps I didn't explain it correctly. YES, you're right, it was because of claim costs. By "competitive dis-advantage" they admitted they needed to cover (or recover) their claim costs (from providing the additional 2 years) by adding $$ to the pricing of new coaches, and THAT was putting them at a dis-advantage with their competitors. Obviously, some of this is my interpretation of their comments, because executives rarely speak so bluntly, but that was the essence of the comments they made. To be clear, Newmar didn't "modify" the warranty on current models, and certainly could not reduce the length of warranty on coaches already sold, but rather they announced that the next model year they would be returning to offering only 1 year warranty.

I apologize to the OP for taking this thread so far off topic. Ed

I didn't mean to imply that Newmar would not honor the existing extended warranties. You don't change the rules in the middle of the game. The next year coaches would only get the 1 year. I haven't seen any reduction in pricing on Newmar coaches since the warranty was modified. So much for passing the savings on to the customer.

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by Crippsfl

I didn't mean to imply that Newmar would not honor the existing extended warranties. You don't change the rules in the middle of the game. The next year coaches would only get the 1 year. I haven't seen any reduction in pricing on Newmar coaches since the warranty was modified. So much for passing the savings on to the customer.

Maybe the customer savings is in the form of diesel fuel and personal time getting warranty work done

[brobox]

I would just like to HAVE a MH to worry about the warranty on We had lunch with Swenster and his lovely DW yesterday and it was REALLY encouraging to hear that Entegra's do get delivered that a punch list will fit on a "sticky note". They have been fortunate enough to spend four months in theirs with hardly a problem. That was encouraging for us to know that it can be done.

[Crippsfl]

Originally Posted by palehorse89

Maybe the customer savings is in the form of diesel fuel and personal time getting warranty work done

You mean the diesel fuel and personal time they would have used to go to Indiana and have all that warranty work that they were having done at the end of the 3 year warranty?

[bullheaded]

Originally Posted by brobox

I would just like to HAVE a MH to worry about the warranty on We had lunch with Swenster and his lovely DW yesterday and it was REALLY encouraging to hear that Entegra's do get delivered that a punch list will fit on a "sticky note". They have been fortunate enough to spend four months in theirs with hardly a problem. That was encouraging for us to know that it can be done.

He's always out on the golf cart with the dog anyway

[brobox]

Originally Posted by bullheaded

He's always out on the golf cart with the dog anyway

That's true, but at least he could DRIVE it all the way from up north and it "looks" nice sitting at Pelican

[Jack1234]

In light of what appears to be an Industry wide problem with QC and the propensity for parts and systems to fail ...... And.....if the idea that a 2yr warranty is in fact a BIG deal or competitive selling advantage.....I've often wondered why one of the RV manufacturers doesn't sit down with one of the major extended warranty outfits and work-out a custom 10yr. Warranty that could be included/buried in their price?

The other major expense of RV ownership is depreciation.....why not sit down with one of the major N. American Insurance companies and create a custom 25yr (lifetime) annuity that would return the total$$ value of the Coach. It could be structured to pay-out (proportionally) at anytime or be transferable to new owners. This would add around $75k to a new $300k Motorhome.

The expense of both the 10yr warranty and the depreciation annuity could be funded by cutting-out the "nobody believes" & ridiculous +30% discounts off MSRP pricing! You could still offer a more realistic and believable 5-10% discount and also offer your customers a 10yr Industry leading warranty..... PLUS a revolutionary depreciation Protected Motorhome! Just seems to me that if everyone is pretty much offering the same major components (Cummins, Allison, Freightliner/Spartan, etc) ....why not look for a way to stand-out with some innovative solutions to the common Motorhome ownership problems of QC and Depreciation?

[DSL417]

Jack, you bring up several interesting thoughts...I don't know why MSRP pricing is what it is, but my sense is it is much different than the p/u with a MSRP of 35k selling for 26k or less. But some folks will come in and pay 35k. Plus the dealers ALWAYS have the leverage to play games with trade ins using the higher MSRPs.

I think the manufacturers build the warrantee (1 or 2 years) into their price. The difference with extended warrantees is the requirements for documentation of servicing and following the care and maintenance TO THE LETTER to get performance. You have that option with every coach. I thought the one offered by my dealer was a little expensive, JMHO.

Why is 2 year warrantee a big deal for Entegra. Their coaches are a best buy at the price point for amenities offered. While I don't like it as an industry practice, the QC practices followed by all integrators at this price point (including Newmar) are not changing yet...so, particularly for those that vacation in their coach, this allows two years to shake it down and make sure it is right. Living in mine full time, at the 10-12 month time frame (which is really two seasons for most owners), the things that need fixing have stabilized and there has been nothing new for four months. So, JMHO, the two year warrantee gives the typical coach owner time to shake down the coach and be ready for taking over full responsibilities for coach maintenance. I'd lie a ten year warrantee, but I'm not sure I'd want to pay for that indemnification. Wouldn't mind seeing the real numbers though

[bullheaded]

Originally Posted by brobox

That's true, but at least he could DRIVE it all the way from up north and it "looks" nice sitting at Pelican

We would be there for sure if there weren't a couple health issues in the way. Miss all the friends we have maid over the last few years at Pelican.

Surely your coach is getting close to being ready!