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06-17-2021, 07:29 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Mount Olive Shores North, FL
Posts: 2,548
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary.Jones
One more point.
I just got back from a 4,000 mile round trip from Louisiana to Dallas to Pennsylvania to Tennessee to Dallas to Shreveport, LA and here is an observation that I made. Frankly, until a few seconds ago, I never made this connection.
However, my observation was that there were damn few Entegra coaches seen on the interstates as I made this trip. I would guess that I saw 8 to 10 Freightliner chassis coaches (or some other proprietary coach frame ( e.g., the buys that build them themselves) for every Entegra we saw coming at us on the interstate.
This situation was so obvious that it was really clear. I always pay attention to coaches coming at me while driving. Over the years, Entegra's became more and more common to see on the road. Just before the COVID mess, I was surprised by how many classic and new style Entegras were being seen on the highway, but boy, Entegras were an absent quantity on the roads this time. It could not be ignored..... easily 8 to 10 non Spartan coaches (tag axle diesel pushers) were seen for every Spartan Entegra. I considered that since I was in NIRVC country, and I know that NIRVC employs as many as 7 drivers who do nothing more than move coaches from one of their facilities to where it might be sold more quickly or is needed for a customer (e.g. I-20) that this might be a sampling bias, but now I wonder if as lot of owners just are not willing to head out for their first big post COVID trip . If true, that is incredible SAD.
Spartan needs to get this resolved. The answer is in my post immediately above IMO.
Gary
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Interesting and it matches my observation going from FL to MI and back, and especially interesting because I went to Middlebury and Charlotte so would have expected more Entegras. But what about Tiffin? They sell a high percentage of DP and many of them are on Tiffin Powerglide chassis. What do they use for DEF head and what is their experience? Since both Jayco and Tiffin now owned by Thor is there a possibility of technology sharing?
__________________
Jerry - 2021 Entegra Anthem 44F
2017 Grand Cherokee
sold 2018 Entegra Aspire 42DEQ Sweet Victory
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06-17-2021, 07:33 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Webster, FL
Posts: 178
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Is Entegra Paying Attention?
Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox
Please share any ideas besides the NHTSA Defective Product Division, that might work for other MH owners. So far in 5 years I have seen nothing but complaints, and no action from any entities.
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After following all of these threads, I was wondering if any of the big boys (you know who you are) that stay on top of all things Entegra have asked or might know if Entegra has pressured Spartan to get a handle on this issue with Shaw. Or even change their supplier as has been suggested. Although I would guess that the length of time the radiator issue persisted that the answer is no. Since all of Entegra's class A's are on spartan chassis you would think there is some leverage there. Since Newmars luxury line is exclusively on spartan you would think they would be concerned also. I am reading posts where people are saying they would not buy another Entegra on a spartan chassis. A point to be taken!
__________________
Roger & Donna
2021 Anthem 44Z
2023 GMC Canyon Denali
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06-17-2021, 08:01 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 768
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Now that I know there aren’t ANY Def Heads in the inventory to bail me out while away from home base, I am dam sure not risking my machine becoming a brick at some far away place with no known possibility of getting it fixed.
__________________
Bill & Marsha & Devin
2019 Entegra Anthem 42DEQ/ Sold last year
Looking at B Vans
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06-17-2021, 08:07 AM
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#32
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger8070
After following all of these threads, I was wondering if any of the big boys (you know who you are) that stay on top of all things Entegra have asked or might know if Entegra has pressured Spartan to get a handle on this issue with Shaw. Or even change their supplier as has been suggested. Although I would guess that the length of time the radiator issue persisted that the answer is no. Since all of Entegra's class A's are on spartan chassis you would think there is some leverage there. Since Newmars luxury line is exclusively on spartan you would think they would be concerned also. I am reading posts where people are saying they would not buy another Entegra on a spartan chassis. A point to be taken!
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Personally, I have not had any feedback from Entegra but to pass it on to Spartan. When speaking with one of the upper management with Spartan, I was referred to Shaw. Shaw absolutely refused to return calls or reply to emails. It was the typical corporate catch 22 run around for over a month.This DEF fiasco has been my over "three strikes and your out" with Spartan. The next MH will be a step-down in size with a Freightliner chassis.
The NHTSA is not making any leaps forward that I can see, and we sure as hell don't have any RV representation that will be involved with a class action suit against the hands that feed them, plus the time it take to even begin to file one. None of the DEF Sensor plagued MH owners would probably never see the end of a class action. Again, where do we turn? I think most people purchasing new MH's have no clue that Spartan is selling inferior, problem ridden chassis. The salesmen tell them," this is the same chassis fire trucks are built on".....sold.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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06-17-2021, 08:56 AM
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#33
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Florida
Posts: 557
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Spartan's reputation has already been damaged. When I eventually get a DP, I have already decided it will be on a Freightliner chassis. Originally I was leaning towards a Spartan chassis. But this Spartan/Shaw DEF issue is nothing I want to be involved with. Even if Spartan has changed DEF head suppliers and has the problem sorted by the time I am ready to buy in a few years, their lack of attention to making immediate changes and get this sorted tells me that any future problems will receive the same lack of attention. Spartan has lost a potential new customer.
__________________
2021 Newmar Bay Star 3626
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06-17-2021, 02:19 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butte64
Interesting and it matches my observation going from FL to MI and back, and especially interesting because I went to Middlebury and Charlotte so would have expected more Entegras. But what about Tiffin? They sell a high percentage of DP and many of them are on Tiffin Powerglide chassis. What do they use for DEF head and what is their experience? Since both Jayco and Tiffin now owned by Thor is there a possibility of technology sharing?
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I understand that Freightliner and Tiffin use different DEF equipment that is much less problematic. It is only reasonable that these related companies would share. However, when in Middlebury I observed hundreds of Spartan frames with more coming in every day. I assume that to change the DEF equipment would take months/years because they have to use their inventory first.
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06-17-2021, 02:41 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Pine, CO
Posts: 766
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We have a classic that seems to be outside of the Def issue at the moment...thank God. Reached out to Angie and considered trading up to an Anthem. Got cold feet and decided to wait the DEF issue out. We've become dissatisfied with Spartan's lack of urgency to correct the radiator and now Def issues.
After attending Brett's customer appreciation event in Ft Worth earlier this year, we're taking a stronger look at the Dutch Star on a FL chassis. Don't see Entegra as our next purchase.
Cheers!
__________________
Rusty & Pam
2012 Entegra Aspire RBQ
2007 Harley Street Glide
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06-17-2021, 03:06 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aza
I understand that Freightliner and Tiffin use different DEF equipment that is much less problematic. It is only reasonable that these related companies would share. However, when in Middlebury I observed hundreds of Spartan frames with more coming in every day. I assume that to change the DEF equipment would take months/years because they have to use their inventory first.
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Tiffin also uses Shaw DEF heads. Reports are their failures are just as bad.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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06-17-2021, 07:57 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 3,122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox
Tiffin also uses Shaw DEF heads. Reports are their failures are just as bad.
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Chuck, over the past couple of hours I’ve been inquiring among some friends who own Tiffin motorhomes and they’re saying the same thing – that they believe Shaw is Tiffin’s supplier.
With regard to Tiffin’s failure rate being just as bad as Spartan’s, see my comments in this post:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/can...ml#post5795823
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2022 Newmar Super Star 4061
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06-17-2021, 08:55 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ
Chuck, over the past couple of hours I’ve been inquiring among some friends who own Tiffin motorhomes and they’re saying the same thing – that they believe Shaw is Tiffin’s supplier.
With regard to Tiffin’s failure rate being just as bad as Spartan’s, see my comments in this post:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/can...ml#post5795823
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Thank you, it will be interesting what you find from your sources at Tiffin and if there are more failures with the Spartan Shaw DEF heads.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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06-18-2021, 09:17 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Spartan Chassis
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 577
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I just posted similar on the Newmar forum.
I hit the DEF head issue and called it in to Spartan in May. Because I was 3miles from home I just parked here until resolved.
Today since I am coming up on the period where I need to start canceling/ changing my July reservations I called them for an update.
They told me they have no insight as to when they will receive the shipment of DEF units in August (could be beginning or end of the month). They also didn’t know how large the shipment would be.
I asked if K2/K3 chassis all used the same heads and the answer is that the chips are the same only the length of the hoses is different among the chassis.
They also told me there are a total of 20 customers currently on the list waiting on DEF heads and they are working them off chronologically.
However, they will still prioritize someone who gets stuck on the side of the road higher than those safety at home or in a campground. So number 20 on that list may get head #30 if there are 10 more failures on the side of the road.
Time to start canceling my July reservations…..
- Richard
__________________
Richard & Denise
2019 VTDP 4310 K2
2019 Expedition, Nighthawk & AF1
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06-18-2021, 09:29 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 677
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I was on the side of the road/parking lot/ I was fortunate to get a DEF head and continue my trip with my family. However, after speaking with SPARTAN let’s just DEF head is virtually the same as the last one they can’t tell me how long this one will last. So I guess every mile I’m on the road with my wife and family we’re at risk of breaking down again, my problem is SPARTAN has known I’ve had this problem for a long time and has allowed us to take the risks and our motorcoach is on the road. Total lack of respect as far as I’m concerned, that’s why I’m looking at trading then I paid for 2018 Aspire on anything on a Freightliner chassis, and I also agree the fact is we didn’t buy our couches from SPARTAN we bought them from Entegra so as much as I’ve enjoyed this coach and I’ve been treated great by Entegra I’m moving to a completely different product..... Newmar I guess will be first on my list to look at, although I know some of them are on SPARTAN chassis as well probably the ones I’d prefer🤷🏻.... but SPARTAN is not an option to me not so much that they’ve had a problem it’s just a total lack of respect after they knew they had one...
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06-18-2021, 09:36 AM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 677
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The new DEF heads are made by the same manufacturer, are we sure we can trust them? SPARTAN is not so how can we be?
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06-18-2021, 09:45 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Capistrano Beach, California
Posts: 4,465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buck58
The new DEF heads are made by the same manufacturer, are we sure we can trust them? SPARTAN is not so how can we be?
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The current DEF head is a gen 7 version, and we have little if any data on their failure rate, but the track record is obviously poor. So, to answer your question, I would say, "NO," they cannot be trusted but there is no alternative.
__________________
Larry, Eileen, and Finley
2004 Alpine 36FDDS
Third motor home, first Alpine, no need for another.
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