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Old 08-15-2020, 08:37 AM   #85
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Chuck

The second link appears to show a float. The first link does not look like there is a float and is probably sensed differently.

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Old 08-15-2020, 09:20 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by brobox View Post
Unless it was another one of Spartan tall stories, I was told my DEF sensor did not have a float and would have to be driven at least 20 miles for DEF to start flowing to get a reading.
Chuck, This is just a wild guess but what they are calling a "focus" tube must be some sort of optical or pressure tube that tells the sensor what the fluid level is. This is probably where the air gets trapped and they want you to "shake the tank"...to get the trapped air out.

The sensor looks pretty simple to change out but they have made it so much more difficult because of the design. They should have molded that tube into the plastic head so that all you would need to do is unplug, remove and replace with the new sensor, plug back in and down the road you go...
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Old 08-15-2020, 05:07 PM   #87
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This may be off the mark, but still worth mentioning. I syphoned the content of my DEF tank and filled with fresh DEF (Blue DEF) about a month ago. I flushed the syphon hose and set it aside in the garage. When we were preparing to hit the road a couple of weeks ago, I gathered together relevant tools and the syphon hose. I noticed that there was quite a bit of dried UREA residue in spite of the fact that I had flushed the hose. The take away from this experience is that it seems possible that undissolved UREA solids can exist in the Tank especially if you fill DEF at a truck stop. The hose from the drivers side is about 8' and conceivable it contains an adverse quantity of UREA solids that could cause issues. FOOD FOR THOUGHT
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:41 AM   #88
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In the link from Bluebird as to how to replace the level sensor there are only 3 wires going to the sensor. I wonder if there is a way to either short, cut, put resistor in the line to make the unit show the tank is full until you can get it replaced. It is sounding like this level sensor is causing most of the problems people are having. Since instructions were from 2013 and they are now replacing the compete head unit I wonder if the new units have where you can not change out just the level sensor.
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Old 08-16-2020, 06:20 AM   #89
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In the link from Bluebird as to how to replace the level sensor there are only 3 wires going to the sensor. I wonder if there is a way to either short, cut, put resistor in the line to make the unit show the tank is full until you can get it replaced. It is sounding like this level sensor is causing most of the problems people are having. Since instructions were from 2013 and they are now replacing the compete head unit I wonder if the new units have where you can not change out just the level sensor.


Turbojack, you may be on to something there with putting a resistor in line to make the system appear full. The resistance values are there but as you said one shows 3 wires and the Freightliner doc shows 4 wires.
The Blue Bird doc is dated 2013 but there was a new EPA requirement in or about 2016 that required the system check the quality of the DEF. Maybe this explains the difference in the number of wires.

I can understand why Spartan would not provide any work around as this would violate EPA regulations, but our intent as owners is to get the coach a to repair facility without a tow and damages.

I would imagine the after treatment system is still receiving DEF even if sending unit is showing DEF is empty.

Oh well, we keep leaning.

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Old 08-16-2020, 06:35 AM   #90
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The Blue Bird doc is dated 2013 but there was a new EPA requirement in or about 2016 that required the system check the quality of the DEF. Maybe this explains the difference in the number of wires

Richard
You both maybe on to something. On the 19, with the digital dash, the DEF error message on the screen was "DEF concentration to high" which was impossible as I had just changed fluid. I had moved the coach and run it a few days before changing fluid and no message.
The new DEF head requirement after 2016 probably explains why none of the Classics are have DEF sensor problems. New DEF sensor requirements seem to be to technical for current manufacturing capabilities, leaving owners needing to find work a around.
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Old 08-20-2020, 03:08 PM   #91
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My DEF head was replaced last year along with those of other owners I know. But in spite of this being a known problem the number of owners getting stuck has increased even on newer coaches. It has come to the point of hearing talk of people saying to not buy an Entegra and some owners going to dump their coach as a result of the problem or as a preventive measure.

I have not heard of this issue with other brands. Does Newmar have the same problem? How about coaches on a Freightliner chassis or Tiffin on a Powerglide chassis?

It seems to me that if Spartan does not resolve this problem for current as well as future owners that the Entegra company bottom line will suffer as well as owners. We can manage with things like air conditioners not working but getting stuck on the road is a different magnitude of problem.

I run a trucking company ALL Diesel brands are having DEF problems.
We have so may trucks down every week due to DEF issues it is insane!!!!
MH with diesels are no different. Just may take a little longer because they are not used as much as our commercial trucks.

Engineers have turned all Diesel powered vehicles into money pitts.
This is only going to get much worse before they finally address it.
It is so bad now I will not purchase any newer MH with Diesel.
My vacations are too important to spend days sitting at a repair
shop waiting for DEF parts to arrive.
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Old 08-23-2020, 06:05 AM   #92
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Here is a diagram from the company that makes them for Gillig that supplies them to Spartan.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SCR and DEF Systems Diagram.pdf (1.36 MB, 20 views)
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Old 08-23-2020, 06:30 AM   #93
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Thanks for that diagram. Shows just how many parts are subject to failure on what should be a simple system.
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