DEF head issues and Spartan

[Butte64]

Originally Posted by Nowabeachbum

Is this a Spartan issue, a Cummins issue or an issue of all DEF engines? Seems like there are vehicles other than Spartan having issues as well.

It is a part installed by Spartan issue. While there are several reports that it affects other brands as well I haven’t seen any data to compare whether Spartan has the same or different percent of problems which is what I was hoping to find out.

There was a post that suggested part of the problem is more stringent EPA requirements that started in 2016. So maybe the DEF heads would not be so problematical under pre 2016 requirements.

[HarleySG]

Originally Posted by Nowabeachbum

Is this a Spartan issue, a Cummins issue or an issue of all DEF engines? Seems like there are vehicles other than Spartan having issues as well.

From what I hear, its a problem for other DEF engines too, and I can sympathize with the magnitude of the problem, but I'm a customer of Entegra and Spartan. I don't care how other coach manufacturers handle the issue, only Spartan, as they are the ones that installed it as part of the frame, before delivering to Entegra.

Spartan is well aware of the DEF Problems just like the Side Mount Radiator Problem. They chose how to address these issues, and it makes them look questionable in my opinion.

Suck it up buttercup and own the problem on behalf of your customers.

JMO

Cheers!

[Marcosdad]

What Nowabeachbum said. We have a neighbor here at the home with a 2019 Tiffin Bus. His failed this summer and was apparently a much more difficult replacement than ours.

[zman62]

My understanding is it’s affecting all heavy duty diesels

[BMGM37]

This title caught my eye as we have a Jayco Seneca on the newer S2 chassis and a LOT of people are having issues with the DEF system on them. We have had different codes come and go, mostly clear after 3 key cycles. After doing some digging and working with FCCC which well knows about this problem They finally admitted that the major cause on many of the S2 chassis is the coolant lines running from the engine to the DEF heater we’re connected backwards at the factory. So instead of heating the DEF when it gets close to 32 degrees, it is heating it all the time and has been reported that DEF temps were around 160 degrees Nd this heat is destroying the sensors. I received drawings of the coolant line routing and sure enough mine were backwards and is at Freightliner now getting a new DEF Header. Just thought I would pass this along.

[zman62]

I found this interesting. It was posted on entegra owners Facebook

Today I spoke to Sparton about all the DEF problems, I got some advice that was interesting at the least , DEF itself is part of the problem especially if you use the DEF at truck stops, they buy in bulk and some places it can be contaminated or not be as good as the more regulated sealed 2 1/2 gallon sealed bottles. Once your codes show up the DEF pump is screwy and has to be replaced. If you Order one today Sparton is two weeks out on back orders. One more thing only a suggestion is to not let the tank get under half full and top it off with either sealed gallons or the sealed 2 1/2 gallon plastic bottles and never drain the DEF tank. I do know on my last motorhome I drained the tank thinking the DEF was bad and had to get both the tank and pump assembly changed out. Hope this helps, be safe.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by zman62

I found this interesting. It was posted on entegra owners Facebook

Today I spoke to Sparton about all the DEF problems, I got some advice that was interesting at the least , DEF itself is part of the problem especially if you use the DEF at truck stops, they buy in bulk and some places it can be contaminated or not be as good as the more regulated sealed 2 1/2 gallon sealed bottles. Once your codes show up the DEF pump is screwy and has to be replaced. If you Order one today Sparton is two weeks out on back orders. One more thing only a suggestion is to not let the tank get under half full and top it off with either sealed gallons or the sealed 2 1/2 gallon plastic bottles and never drain the DEF tank. I do know on my last motorhome I drained the tank thinking the DEF was bad and had to get both the tank and pump assembly changed out. Hope this helps, be safe.

Basically those that store for any length of time are going to have DEF head problems...If I store with low DEF like the book says we are going to have problems. If we change the fluid to leave with fresh DEF as I did, we are going to have probables. If Spartan is going to change the rules, it would be nice it that let us know.
I did all of the above and the DEF head quit at 1,900 miles. Spartan had me go though their dill of test driving instead of asking for the codes first after telling them above that I had just preformed. Thanks for letting us know that changing DEF like it did is asking for a problem.

[Gary.Jones]

Well, yes, if Spartan's advice in the phone call is correct, then it would be nice to know this and Spartan should have published a TSB for owners or at least gotten that information to Entegra to then notify all owners. Something wrong with what is happening here. This has got to be very bad for Spartan to have such a touchy system out there as they are likely the company that is paying for all the replacement sensors and shop time replacing them. Owners of coaches approaching 3 years old are also going to need to be careful.

First time I have heard that DEF from Walmart or SAMS may be a better choice than DEF from a truck stop. Up until this morning, that is the first time I have heard of that, and in fact, most of the knowledge contained in this forum and these threads are the exact opposite (that truckstop DEF is better as there are lots of ways that WalMart DEF might be contaminated or nothing but clear water, so it sure would be nice to have some guidance.

I will point out that my Cornerstone had never had truckstop DEF in it until I got the EFS card as I rarely or never patronized truck stops for either diesel or DEF until fairly recently, and my DEF pump problems occurred before I started using truckstop DEF.

Gary

[billb3672]

Here is a thought. Here in Florida and I believe in California if you have an item like this DEF system that fails 3 times, and they can't fix it, you can apply the Lemon Law. Based on the thread I am surprised that no one has filed so far.

[zman62]

Originally Posted by billb3672

Here is a thought. Here in Florida and I believe in California if you have an item like this DEF system that fails 3 times, and they can't fix it, you can apply the Lemon Law. Based on the thread I am surprised that no one has filed so far.

Interesting thought. The only problem is the new coach you would be getting will have the same crappy def head. On the other hand a new coach in place for you 2 yr old coach would help the pain a little bit.

[Dieselgem]

Originally Posted by zman62

I found this interesting. It was posted on entegra owners Facebook

Today I spoke to Sparton about all the DEF problems, I got some advice that was interesting at the least , DEF itself is part of the problem especially if you use the DEF at truck stops, they buy in bulk and some places it can be contaminated or not be as good as the more regulated sealed 2 1/2 gallon sealed bottles. Once your codes show up the DEF pump is screwy and has to be replaced. If you Order one today Sparton is two weeks out on back orders. One more thing only a suggestion is to not let the tank get under half full and top it off with either sealed gallons or the sealed 2 1/2 gallon plastic bottles and never drain the DEF tank. I do know on my last motorhome I drained the tank thinking the DEF was bad and had to get both the tank and pump assembly changed out. Hope this helps, be safe.

Chuck,


I like you have used the Walmart DEF always. Kind of surprised on the drain issue. Per Spartan, I have run my def to 1/4 tank and drained my tank every year when I have the filter changed. I am wondering if this is an overkill, as a result of so many failures on the newer units. How does the sensor know if the vehicle is not on that the tank has been drained.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by Dieselgem

Chuck,
How does the sensor know if the vehicle is not on that the tank has been drained.

Exactly! the same discussion I had with Spartan. It's a"dumb" sensor until power is supply. How does the sensor know I changed fluid? If the sensor is that smart, why does it fail so often?

[zman62]

I am going to order a def head and carry it on board. Hopefully will never need it.
I have a scan tool on board so hopefully it’s as easy as a swap out and clear codes.

We will see.

[Roadyacht1]

Man. Glad my coach is just pre Def.

And my last one before was one of the last no electronics. And no problems!.