DEF head issues and Spartan

[Gary.Jones]

RVFunLovers

It always amazes me that a relative newbie asks a straightforward question and yet, no one attempts to answer the question. Shame on all of us !!!!

you asked how you would know about an engine DEF (or problem) code. Simple and straightforward. Virtually all coaches since DEF was required on diesel engines about 2008 have a means to let you know that the "ECM" (electronic control module which monitors how your engine and exhaust are "doing") thinks you have a problem. It varies with different models. At its most basic, you will get a check engine idiot light on the dash (usually an empty outline of an engine which really is that the ECM sees a problem). If the engine icon has a check mark in it (a "check engine light"), then it is more specifically telling you there is something wrong with the system that you need to pay attention to. Usually, there is a way that the specific code is indicated also.... the Code on my 2015 just came up on the dashboard and showed that it was a SPN XXX, FMI XXX code. It appeared on a dash display. You can look up that code using the Spartan app on an iPhone, or you can usually simply Google the SPN and FMI codes and you probably will find the translation of those codes.

On my 2019 Cornerstone, I get a engine icon or a check engine icon idiot light but then can go do an additional screen on my digital dash using the control knob near my left hand and toll window to go into the diagnostic menus. The diagnostic menu will show those codes and keep them in memory until, usually, they are cleared by a certified Cummins/Spartan shop. Usually, the smaller the FMI number,. the less important the code is, the higher the number (in the 30s I believe) the much more serious the problem that is being sensed is.... You can get a code which tells you you have XXX more miles to go before your engine will derate... (that means that you will have less power, or virtually no power, and you can travel at a maximum of XX amount of speed..... slow.... like 5 or 10 mph. If you exceed that amount, then the engine may throw a code that literally shuts down your engine.

Generally speaking the engine icon with a check mark in it is a serious code. The DEF is a urea / distilled water mixture that is injected into your "catalytic converter" on the coach (the Diesel Particulate Filter) (the muffler system) to help the engine and DPF burn off any soot that is generated by the engine. it is central to a "clean" diesel engine, and the federal government is quite picky about how much they will let that system malfunction before the coach forces you to deal with the problem.

You can also call Spartan 24/7 and ask for help finding and interpreting the code and they are helpful in figuring out what you need to do.

Gary

[RVFunlovers]

Thanks Gary. I appreciate the info. Very Helpful.

[billb3672]

If you want to respond to these posts and provide information that is great, but admonishing people for your perception is totally inappropriate.This is not Facebook!

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

RVFunLovers

It always amazes me that a relative newbie asks a straightforward question and yet, no one attempts to answer the question. Shame on all of us !!!!

you asked how you would know about an engine DEF (or problem) code. Simple and straightforward. Virtually all coaches since DEF was required on diesel engines about 2008 have a means to let you know that the "ECM" (electronic control module which monitors how your engine and exhaust are "doing") thinks you have a problem. It varies with different models. At its most basic, you will get a check engine idiot light on the dash (usually an empty outline of an engine which really is that the ECM sees a problem). If the engine icon has a check mark in it (a "check engine light"), then it is more specifically telling you there is something wrong with the system that you need to pay attention to. Usually, there is a way that the specific code is indicated also.... the Code on my 2015 just came up on the dashboard and showed that it was a SPN XXX, FMI XXX code. It appeared on a dash display. You can look up that code using the Spartan app on an iPhone, or you can usually simply Google the SPN and FMI codes and you probably will find the translation of those codes.

On my 2019 Cornerstone, I get a engine icon or a check engine icon idiot light but then can go do an additional screen on my digital dash using the control knob near my left hand and toll window to go into the diagnostic menus. The diagnostic menu will show those codes and keep them in memory until, usually, they are cleared by a certified Cummins/Spartan shop. Usually, the smaller the FMI number,. the less important the code is, the higher the number (in the 30s I believe) the much more serious the problem that is being sensed is.... You can get a code which tells you you have XXX more miles to go before your engine will derate... (that means that you will have less power, or virtually no power, and you can travel at a maximum of XX amount of speed..... slow.... like 5 or 10 mph. If you exceed that amount, then the engine may throw a code that literally shuts down your engine.

Generally speaking the engine icon with a check mark in it is a serious code. The DEF is a urea / distilled water mixture that is injected into your "catalytic converter" on the coach (the Diesel Particulate Filter) (the muffler system) to help the engine and DPF burn off any soot that is generated by the engine. it is central to a "clean" diesel engine, and the federal government is quite picky about how much they will let that system malfunction before the coach forces you to deal with the problem.

You can also call Spartan 24/7 and ask for help finding and interpreting the code and they are helpful in figuring out what you need to do.

Gary

[Gary.Jones]

Well, that is your opinion.... To the best of my understanding, this forum is mostly here for owners to aski questions and get help from those who have dealt with the problem before.

However, you apparently failed to read past the first paragraph (which offended you) to see that I actually tried to answer the OP's question. ----

Gary

[JC2]

. Always appreciate ur input.








QUOTE=Gary.Jones;5390526]Well, that is your opinion.... To the best of my understanding, this forum is mostly here for owners to aski questions and get help from those who have dealt with the problem before.

However, you apparently failed to read past the first paragraph (which offended you) to see that I actually tried to answer the OP's question. ----

Gary[/QUOTE]

[Mauro]

Originally Posted by brobox

After going though the radiator on 14 on the first cross country trip, and now the DEF sensor on the 19 with only 1,953 miles, I have lost ALL respect for Spartan. Hopefully they will get slapped in the face like Norcold refrigerators did. It only took 13 year, but I just received my final settlement check. Hopefully putting out their trip ruining junk will come home to bite then on the a$$.

Chuck:
I have a 14 Anthem. like you had, but I was lucky and had very few problems with it (changing pumps in Aqua Hot, changing a few shades and the microwave, all paid by Entegra), but I was thinking of upgrading to a Cornerstone in which kinks would be worked out, something like a 2019. Now I hear of all these problems with the DEF head in that vintage, including yours, and I understand you are thinking of upgrading to a 2021. Do you think I should stay away fro the 2017-2019 vintage? I would greatly value your opinion.
Thanks,
Mauro

[brobox]

Originally Posted by Mauro

Chuck:
I have a 14 Anthem. like you had, but I was lucky and had very few problems with it (changing pumps in Aqua Hot, changing a few shades and the microwave, all paid by Entegra), but I was thinking of upgrading to a Cornerstone in which kinks would be worked out, something like a 2019. Now I hear of all these problems with the DEF head in that vintage, including yours, and I understand you are thinking of upgrading to a 2021. Do you think I should stay away fro the 2017-2019 vintage? I would greatly value your opinion.
Thanks,
Mauro

It sounds like all of the new MH's are having DEF head problems. I wouldn't let that stop me from upgrading coaches. I just picked up the 21, if the DEF head problem is not corrected with the so called new generation 6, it wasn't that big of a problem to get it changed. Ten times the problems with my Aqua Hot on the 14. Good luck with the new coach search. The coach you find might have already had the DEF sensor changed. If not, bargaining power.

[Mauro]

Originally Posted by brobox

It sounds like all of the new MH's are having DEF head problems. I wouldn't let that stop me from upgrading coaches. I just picked up the 21, if the DEF head problem is not corrected with the so called new generation 6, it wasn't that big of a problem to get it changed. Ten times the problems with my Aqua Hot on the 14. Good luck with the new coach search. The coach you find might have already had the DEF sensor changed. If not, bargaining power.

Thanks. I will be looking for a good one.

[Zarbek]

I have a 2018 Newmar King Air and also have a DEF head problem. It's on a Spartan chassis. While I patiently wait for Spartan to get parts (they told me 1 week, then 2 weeks now it's 4 weeks) I've learned some things. If your def tank is reading empty and you know it's full, turn the key on and off 6 times to reset. I also learned from our GOV that if DEF sits in the tank it can create crystals around the sensor.

Here are two links to help DIY'ers. One is how to replace and the other is the GOV link. You will need a Heavy duty Scan tool to clear the codes. You might also get a DEF tester to see if you have faulty DEF.

https://hollandbuscompany.com/wp-con...eplacement.pdf
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...46782-4244.pdf


Thank God for this forum.

[Gary.Jones]

Brobox

That second government spec sheet on cleaning the DEF level sensing system sure sounds like it might have been your problem.

Gary

[jrugarber]

Thank you for posting the disassembly and replacement instructions.
Hopefully I'll never have to refer to them.

[TurtleKent]

Originally Posted by BMGM37

This title caught my eye as we have a Jayco Seneca on the newer S2 chassis and a LOT of people are having issues with the DEF system on them. We have had different codes come and go, mostly clear after 3 key cycles. After doing some digging and working with FCCC which well knows about this problem They finally admitted that the major cause on many of the S2 chassis is the coolant lines running from the engine to the DEF heater we’re connected backwards at the factory. So instead of heating the DEF when it gets close to 32 degrees, it is heating it all the time and has been reported that DEF temps were around 160 degrees Nd this heat is destroying the sensors. I received drawings of the coolant line routing and sure enough mine were backwards and is at Freightliner now getting a new DEF Header. Just thought I would pass this along.

Anecdotal story on my overheating DEF. On my 2019 Allegro Bus(Powerglide chassis) I noticed my DEF temps reach a high of 168° after a few hours operation. Six months from factory new, unknown how long overheating was occurring. Tiffin Service Center decided(and later confirmed) it was a failed DEF coolant valve locked in the open position, which allowed DEF to heat anytime engine was running. It was replaced, and DEF temps never again rose more than about 10° above outside temps(same as the ambient engine compartment temps).

300 miles later, after 4 months inside storage, my DEF head failed and threw codes. Coincidental??

Tiffin overnighted a new DEF head under warranty. Tiffin offered to pay for towing or mobile mechanic. I replaced myself, because being in a remote location, I wasn't going to allow a 50 mile tow, and I didn't trust a mobile mechanic. With the Bus, the radiator grill must first be removed, then the DEF head plumbing and electrical unhooked, and the tank removed from the side. R/R DEF head simple, then reinstall tank. It took me 2 hrs, the next DEF head replacement I could finish in 30 minutes, roadside or campground if necessary.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

Brobox

That second government spec sheet on cleaning the DEF level sensing system sure sounds like it might have been your problem.

Gary

Unless it was another one of Spartan tall stories, I was told my DEF sensor did not have a float and would have to be driven at least 20 miles for DEF to start flowing to get a reading.

[Gary.Jones]

Thank you Kent...

Gary