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Old 09-10-2021, 09:16 PM   #1
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DEF issues

Greetings all,

I had the DEF dosing unit r,eplaced today. The coach would not go I to a manual region, it was out of specs.

The stop engine light comes on when I turn the key on.

SPN 1559 FMI 31
SON 3362 FMI 31

I am at l loss, has anyone thought about doing a delete, I ha e no idea what that means.

I have had this coach for almost 2 years and have had issues with DEF
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:33 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdesha View Post
Greetings all,

I had the DEF dosing unit r,eplaced today. The coach would not go I to a manual region, it was out of specs.

The stop engine light comes on when I turn the key on.

SPN 1559 FMI 31
SON 3362 FMI 31

I am at l loss, has anyone thought about doing a delete, I ha e no idea what that means.

I have had this coach for almost 2 years and have had issues with DEF
Well you’ve got some catching up to do. I’d suggest reading through a couple of the other DEF related threads going. There’s a lot of information.

The good news is there’s hope. To me this sounds like it could be just the DEF pump, but there’s a lot more to look into before jumping to that conclusion.

First it would help if you could clarify what this means “ The coach would not go I to a manual region, it was out of specs.” I’m guessing this was supposed to read “regen”.

Second just to make sure, you had the dosing unit replaced but you’re still having the same problem? I have more questions but let’s start with those two.

But it’s way too early to contemplate deleting the system. You can get an over-ride program downloaded to your ECM for around $3000 which doesn’t delete any equipment but does prevent derating, but you can probably fix this and then stay on top of it for far less.

The most important thing is to educate yourself on the system, how it works, what the codes mean, and what’s involved in repairs etc, to prevent unscrupulous shops from taking advantage of you, and incompetent techs from mis-diagnosing the problem and wasting your time and money.

If we are talking about a 2014 Cornerstone, it is all the more important since your emissions warranty has expired. It’s also really helpful to have coach info in your signature.

Fortunately there are quite a few folks here who have been going down this road for a while and have learned a lot about these systems.

So let’s start with the two questions above and then a more complete explanation of your situation, including your previous DEF related problems. Also who do you have working on it?
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Old 09-11-2021, 06:11 AM   #3
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If the dosing unit was just replaced, what did the shop say about the codes?
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Old 09-11-2021, 06:22 AM   #4
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My apologies for not being specific,

This is my 1st time with this issue, so no I'm not familiar with the system.

About a month ago, I was out for a short trip and the regen emblem displayed on the cluster. I was to worried since I had called spartan to find out what that meant the first time it came on. As I continued to drive the emblem went out, about 5 mins later it came back on. Stayed on for a bit. Called spartan when it went out and then came back on, told me it should clear in 20 mins.

It did not clear, then the check engine light came on. Decided to turn and go back to the park. It was recommended that I stop at Loves to have them do a force regen.

Waited for about 3 hours, they hooked up the computer, the regen was inactive but there was a fault code pointing to the dosing unit. I do not remember the code.

Got back and was recommended to a knowledgeable mechanic. After the dosing u it was replaced, the mechanic attempted to do a forced regen. The way it was explained to me, when the manual regen was attempted, (2) parts to the process, the first part wouldn't complete, the computer analysis stated out of spec/parameter, so in an attempt to get it to regen, the 2nd step was done to get the engine temp up.

I was sitting in my coach and the alarm went off and in red Stop Engine light came on, so I turned the engine off, I had no idea what was going on, so I got the guys out, the engine was started the so it would cool down.

After their discussion, the coach was taken out on the road to see if it would do a regen. The engine, check engine light and the regen emblem was displaying. Did not regen.

Driving back to the park, the regen emblem started blinking, thought it was a good sign. It wasn't.

Got back to the park, set up, turned the key off, extended the slides, turned the key on to air level and the red Stop Engine light came on.

Called spartan, the guy had to google the codes. He said that the lines could have been installed backwards, well I highly doubted that.

So now I can't drive my coach anywhere with the stop engine light coming on when I turn the key.

That's the situation I am in now.
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Old 09-11-2021, 06:22 AM   #5
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Old 09-11-2021, 06:34 AM   #6
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Since your coach is a 2014 it’s not likely you are having the same DEF head issue plaguing the 2016 and newer coaches.
I hope you can get it repaired and on the road again.
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Old 09-11-2021, 06:50 AM   #7
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The shop was the ones who replaced the dosing unit based on the codes.

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Old 09-11-2021, 07:14 AM   #8
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The codes you listed assuming you meant 1561 (not 1551) and 3362 have nothing to do with the DPF regeneration problem that appears to have started this problem. They are really 1 code, 3362, that is reporting that the DEF dosing unit (pump) failed to prime. This basically means that DEF fluid is not reaching it. The second code, 1561, is a result of the first and just indicates that the engine has been put into a “derate” condition because of the 1st code. The problem is very likely that the technician made a mistake when installing the new dosing unit and swapped the DEF suction and return lines, or the lines got kinked or pinched or the DEF tank was emptied or the new pump is bad out of the box (not likely). Whoever did the work should be helping you get it resolved at their expense. The regeneration problem is a red herring. While it may very well have its own issues, the codes you are,seeing are not related to the DPF system. Also, those codes are NOT symptomatic of the failed DEF head issue that has been discussed extensively here.
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Old 09-11-2021, 07:53 AM   #9
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The technician only changed the dosing unit.

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Old 09-11-2021, 07:54 AM   #10
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The new information helps. I agree with Archer - regen is a common occurrence and at worst, you just interrupted the process and didn’t let it complete. You should become familiar with the methods of completing a normal regen and also performing a forced regen on your own - you don’t need a shop taking up your time and charging you for that. Trucks have a switch on the dash to start a regen, with Freightliner, there is what is called a “shorting plug” to put it into forced regen. I expect that there is a similar mechanism for a Spartan chassis.

But on to the problem at hand, have the shop that installed your dosing unit (probably unnecessarily) check the lines AND test the DEF pressure out of the pump. When mine failed it was putting out about .5 psi. Normal is around 90-150psi depending on the application. Also check the DEF filter - it’s probably never been changed, If the pressure is low, that could be the culprit, and/or the pump could be bad, either from just wearing out in its own, or fighting a plugged filter.

While snooping around I found this thread:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/eng...-a-273373.html
Check it out. He has a 2017 Mountain Aire now, but this was back in 2015 so it was a pre-2016 system like yours. Skip to post #8 for the results.

This is a little discussion on the DPF and regen and the shorting plug method for FL. It’s good reading and will help you take charge of the whole DPF and regen situation. I would reach out to Spartan and find out if they have a similar method. If not there are still options. What did Loves charge for a forced regen?
https://www.ourmotorhome.net/2017/do...structions.pdf
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Old 09-11-2021, 08:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
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The technician only changed the dosing unit.

Suzzanne
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I don’t understand your point? (Edited to not sound so confrontational, wasn’t how I intended it, sorry) I’m talking about the dosing unit which is also called the DEF Pump. The system is basically three major items (not counting the hoses, filters, etc as separate items). There is the DEF supply tank, this is where you add DEF, and it’s associated temp, level & quality sensors. Then there is the DEF dosing unit (aka pump) that sucks DEF from the tank and pressurizes it up to 100 psi or so to send it to the 3rd item, the valve which on command opens and closes under ECM control to send DEF to the DEF injector that sprays it into the exhaust stream.
The DEF dosing unit has two DEF hoses. One sucks DEF out of the tank and the other returns whatever fluid was not needed by the valve back to the tank. The DEF dosing unit pump has to have an uninterrupted stream of DEF all the way to and from the tank in order to work. If there is no liquid then it can’t get the suction action established. Just like an old fashioned lever-action water well pump. The code you have is saying that the pump doesn’t have that uninterrupted stream and therefore can’t pump.
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:41 AM   #12
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This is the doser, basically an injector, mounted on the SCR, and fed by the pump. I’m fairly certain that’s what he had replaced. And if the pump is bad, the doser doesn’t get DEF and the sensor pics that up.

On mine, I had “low DEF” warnings and codes (same low DEF code you get with a bad DEF head) when it was my pump that failed. But since the system didn’t sense DEF at the doser, the ECM figured I was out of DEF.

If complexity equaled quality, this would be a great system. But it’s crap because as complex as it is, it was poorly conceived, designed, engineered, and manufactured.

https://motiv8parts.com/products/mot...gn=sag_organic

The Dosing unit:
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Old 09-11-2021, 09:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdesha View Post
The technician only changed the dosing unit.

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What did they charge for that, parts and labor?
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Old 09-11-2021, 10:51 AM   #14
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They didn't change me anything, the regent was inactive.

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