Community Forums

brobox · 11-15-2020, 04:55 AM

Not trying to be political, but we can thank a 2016 government regulation for the new DEF sensor problems. EPA passed a regulation that nobody can manufacture successfully. Now we will have 4 year period with more new regulations as the "green new deal" starts to rear it's head. What I wouldn't give to put the pre 16 DEF heads back in, they worked just fine with no pollution.
Just think of how much money Spartan could save by giving a $20. refractometer with each coach to test DEF concentration, rather than replacing $700. DEF sensors that do not work, and in some cases going to replace them twice. JME

Tim, it is a shame we are now on generation 6 of the new DEF sensors, 5 model years since introduction, and we now have to plan trips with expensive MH's around routes with repair facilities, becasue nobody can get it right. I have had 2 generation 6 sensor fail in less that 2,000 miles.

Prairie Dog · 11-15-2020, 05:42 AM

Too bad we can’t just unhook all this Def crap and give the engine a new brain then roll in peace. [emoji23]

Gary.Jones · 11-15-2020, 06:41 AM

Those days are gone

Gary

Tim Fox · 11-15-2020, 07:08 AM

Going sideways from original post, but like Chuck, we are scheduled at Cummins tomorrow for a small oil leak. That is on an L9, not Chucks X15.

Hayman · 11-15-2020, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Fox

Hayman
I hope I don’t have use for your recommendation and we usually avoid DC, but might be worth taking 95 this time. Well actually be closer to you than Chuck. We’re out 17 towards Arcadia next to Sunnybreeze golf course.

Tim, we cut over from 81 to 66 to 17 and pick up 95 at Fredericksburg.

Cummins in Savannah , Ga is also excellent as we got towed there in our Allegro Bus .

Are you at Thornton Creek ?

Tim Fox · 11-15-2020, 12:38 PM

Brian
Usually 81 to 77 and 26 to 95. Trouble with that is/was Charlotte. Most of Charlotte construction is done so much better recently. Might try 66, 17 this year. Will be something new and yes, we are at Thornton Creek. Golf course is nothing spectacular, but it is just outside your door. Looking forward to getting south.

jwprosser · 11-16-2020, 09:15 AM

Chuck,
Sorry for the delay in posting back, Saturday and Sunday got busy. From looking at the codes you posted in the inactive comm failure has got me intrigued. I don't know but would like to see if you can get a date /time for that code as well as the others. If that failure is just prior to the other it may just be part of the problem. Taking thoughts from one of the previous def threads, this is all reported on voltages back to the ecm. What I wouldn't give to know the specs and ranges for the outputs. I know the level is a variable that if it does not change over time it will throw a code. Temp should be a hi/low range, quality I'm not sure about. Yes I would also like to know what the code reader a says and if it can reset the codes. Cant wait to here what Spartan and Cummins has to say.

JP

Gary.Jones · 11-16-2020, 10:49 AM

I'll throw this in just because I don't think that I have ever read about this problem.

Within the past month, I got an amber DEF code thrown on the dash which indicated that the DEF tank was empty. However, the DEF tank was obviously almost full. My dash display looked a lot like yours, but the code was different. My code went away but the dash stayed amber for a while and then went green before I could get to NIRVC to have them look at it. Since I was still ~220 miles away from home, I was not inclined to try to drive the coach back home..... that amber warning could have turned to a clear de-rate code and then a shut down code and I always try to avoid any chance of being towed (lots of damage generally done when being towed).

Anyhow, many conversations between NIRVC and Spartan/Cummins and they said that the classic DEF HEAD failure was well known to generate 3 classic codes (previously reported and I don't remember what they are) and since my code was different and went away after time, they felt it was not a bad DEF head. Several more conversations with Spartan and Cummins and someone came up with the idea of replacing two relays that are located in the circular relay/fuse box right behind the DEF tank and there had been some problems reported by other owners that were resolved by replacing those two relays which they felt was associated with reported low or out of range voltage readings. NIRVC happened to have those (or equivalent) relays and replaced them, and I have now driven about 1,000 more miles with no further problem. I did not bring up the relays earlier in this thread because my problem was similar, but not identical to the OPs, but now I raise it for the OP's and other owners to file away in memory.

Gary

brobox · 11-16-2020, 11:29 AM

On the phone with Mike at Spartan this morning
Going over the codes and corrective measures I have already tried. The DEF sensor is DOA a new one is being sent to Cummins.
On the 21 the DEF head plug is behind a new location of an air manifold so I did not try that reset
Mike also mentioned he didn't think the code reader would clear the codes. I will try to remember to ask Cummins when I take it in. In addition Mike was not sure if my chassis built date of 11/19 has a 6th generation DEF sensor or not.
Long story short, 21's are not exempt from DEF sensor problems

Tim Fox · 11-16-2020, 04:21 PM

I’m messing up original thread, but my oil leak turned out to be a dip tube leak. Dip tube is apparently installed by Spartan so I had to consent to Cummins repairing dip tube leak. Who whoulda thought. I don’t have all the details as this was just a phone conversation.

buddy110 · 11-16-2020, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brobox

On the phone with Mike at Spartan this morning
Going over the codes and corrective measures I have already tried. The DEF sensor is DOA a new one is being sent to Cummins.
On the 21 the DEF head plug is behind a new location of an air manifold so I did not try that reset
Mike also mentioned he didn't think the code reader would clear the codes. I will try to remember to ask Cummins when I take it in. In addition Mike was not sure if my chassis built date of 11/19 has a 6th generation DEF sensor or not.
Long story short, 21's are not exempt from DEF sensor problems

What code reader are you using?

garysfb · 11-16-2020, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Fox

I’m messing up original thread, but my oil leak turned out to be a dip tube leak. Dip tube is apparently installed by Spartan so I had to consent to Cummins repairing dip tube leak. Who whoulda thought. I don’t have all the details as this was just a phone conversation.

I had the same problem and Spartan replaced the entire tube under warranty. I had noticed a few oil drips on my pad at home then noticed the oily, dirty mess at the end of the tube. Spartan even cleaned up the mess on the block.[emoji3]

Rollin101 · 11-16-2020, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brobox

On the phone with Mike at Spartan this morning
Going over the codes and corrective measures I have already tried. The DEF sensor is DOA a new one is being sent to Cummins.
On the 21 the DEF head plug is behind a new location of an air manifold so I did not try that reset
Mike also mentioned he didn't think the code reader would clear the codes. I will try to remember to ask Cummins when I take it in. In addition Mike was not sure if my chassis built date of 11/19 has a 6th generation DEF sensor or not.
Long story short, 21's are not exempt from DEF sensor problems

Chuck, if your chassis build date was 11/19 I’m pretty sure you have the Gen 6 def probe. My 2020 chassis build date is 08/19 and my def head is Gen 6.

zman62 · 11-16-2020, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rollin101

Chuck, if your chassis build date was 11/19 I’m pretty sure you have the Gen 6 def probe. My 2020 chassis build date is 08/19 and my def head is Gen 6.

Mine was the very first 21 built and it has the gen 6.