Diesel Gel

[BillJinOR]

If you put winter blend in of more than 50% of the tank your probably ok. To be clear, are you in the coach using it? Or just storing it. If you're not using it or plan to use it while below 20 then I'd do nothing. 20 is the point gelling can start to happen but mid teens are the real issue. When it warms up the problem goes away. If your using the coach and need the Aqua Hot then use the anti gel and plan on a early jet replacement.. If you do it yourself its a cheap service I have one spare I keep that was $20 bucks. You have no choice.

[fagnaml]

Let me, the Refinery Operations Manager, opine on the "Cold Properties" of diesel fuel. The ULSD we all use for our diesel engine vehicles has summer and winter cold property specifications:

Summer: 10 F Pour Point / 19 F Cloud Point
Winter: 0 F Pour Point / 15 F Cloud Point

Pour point is the temperature at which the ULSD first becomes a gel and will not flow. The winter specifications are followed during the August - March time period each year. Refiners begin making winter-grade ULSD in August as a 2-3 months is required to "turn over inventory" to assure winter grade ULSD is available at the pump by mid-October each year.

Cloud point is the temperature at which the first wax crystals start to form. Wax crystal will plug fuel filters. All ULSD contains wax.

For very cold climates, Refiners / Marketers supply #1 ULSD which is essentially kerosene. Being a light (i.e. lower boiling point) fuel, #1 ULSD has a maximum freeze point temperture of -40 C (which is equal to - 40 F). This is the maximum temperature allowed at which the kerosene become solid.

For winter driving in the northen tier of States, the options are:

1) Find a marketer that sells #1 ULDS (kerosene) or sells a blend of #1 ULSD / ULSD.
2) Purchase winter-spec ULSD ) and add an anti-gel additive such as Power Service Diesel Fuel Additive (white bottle) which is the anti-gel I use --> https://powerservice.com/psp_product...-cetane-boost/

After adding the anti-gel additive, need to operate the generator, Aqua-hot and your engine to assure fuel lines are filled with the diesel + anti-gel mixture. As with all additives, add the anti-gel to a partially empty tank and then fill with freash diesel to get the best mixing.

[Armye7]

Originally Posted by BillJinOR

If you put winter blend in of more than 50% of the tank your probably ok. To be clear, are you in the coach using it? Or just storing it. If you're not using it or plan to use it while below 20 then I'd do nothing. 20 is the point gelling can start to happen but mid teens are the real issue. When it warms up the problem goes away. If your using the coach and need the Aqua Hot then use the anti gel and plan on a early jet replacement.. If you do it yourself its a cheap service I have one spare I keep that was $20 bucks. You have no choice.

We are living in the coach.

[Gasman 2]

Originally Posted by Armye7

Spoke with Aquahot this morning and they said do not add anything. They said the anti-Jel will change the particulars of the diesel fuel and cause the nozzle to clog and fail. Has anyone else heard of this? Chris at Entegra says it’s ok to add but Aquahot says not to add. Looks like temps lows will be in the mid 20s and highs will be in the 30s. Not sure what to do now.

Hello Larry and Vicky,

On the question of additives and the Aquahot nozzle I sure the folks Aquahot want to be very cautious but from my experience with winter fuel additives I don’t see a problem.
Our office burns heating oil with winter additives, the current nozzle is on its third heating season with no problems, we should be changing the nozzle annually but never seem to get around to it.
The fuel we use is the same ultra low sulfur 15ppm used in you coach except it is dyed.
To give you some comfort there are a few things going in your favor on your coach, the fuel tank is up between the frame rails when it’s not getting blasted with cold air, the fuel lines are above the fuel tank high in the frame rails again not getting hit with cold air, and the Aquahot uses a two line fuel system supply and return so the fuel is consistently in circulation when the burner is running.
Hope this help some, had to respond as we are a few miles east of you.

Richard

[dave&ginny]

Originally Posted by fagnaml

Let me, the Refinery Operations Manager, opine on the "Cold Properties" of diesel fuel. The ULSD we all use for our diesel engine vehicles has summer and winter cold property specifications:

Summer: 10 F Pour Point / 19 F Cloud Point
Winter: 0 F Pour Point / 15 F Cloud Point

Pour point is the temperature at which the ULSD first becomes a gel and will not flow. The winter specifications are followed during the August - March time period each year. Refiners begin making winter-grade ULSD in August as a 2-3 months is required to "turn over inventory" to assure winter grade ULSD is available at the pump by mid-October each year.

Cloud point is the temperature at which the first wax crystals start to form. Wax crystal will plug fuel filters. All ULSD contains wax.

For very cold climates, Refiners / Marketers supply #1 ULSD which is essentially kerosene. Being a light (i.e. lower boiling point) fuel, #1 ULSD has a maximum freeze point temperture of -40 C (which is equal to - 40 F). This is the maximum temperature allowed at which the kerosene become solid.

For winter driving in the northen tier of States, the options are:

1) Find a marketer that sells #1 ULDS (kerosene) or sells a blend of #1 ULSD / ULSD.
2) Purchase winter-spec ULSD ) and add an anti-gel additive such as Power Service Diesel Fuel Additive (white bottle) which is the anti-gel I use --> https://powerservice.com/psp_product...-cetane-boost/

After adding the anti-gel additive, need to operate the generator, Aqua-hot and your engine to assure fuel lines are filled with the diesel + anti-gel mixture. As with all additives, add the anti-gel to a partially empty tank and then fill with freash diesel to get the best mixing.

Good Information! Thank You

[Armye7]

Originally Posted by Gasman 2

Hello Larry and Vicky,

On the question of additives and the Aquahot nozzle I sure the folks Aquahot want to be very cautious but from my experience with winter fuel additives I don’t see a problem.
Our office burns heating oil with winter additives, the current nozzle is on its third heating season with no problems, we should be changing the nozzle annually but never seem to get around to it.
The fuel we use is the same ultra low sulfur 15ppm used in you coach except it is dyed.
To give you some comfort there are a few things going in your favor on your coach, the fuel tank is up between the frame rails when it’s not getting blasted with cold air, the fuel lines are above the fuel tank high in the frame rails again not getting hit with cold air, and the Aquahot uses a two line fuel system supply and return so the fuel is consistently in circulation when the burner is running.
Hope this help some, had to respond as we are a few miles east of you.

Richard

Thanks I appreciate the comments, hope the weather continues to be mild.

[Armye7]

This weekend in Ohio temps will fall below 0 and the high won’t reach 20 degrees for at least 3 days. I am going to take my chances and add some Power Service anti gel. Hope this don’t mess up my aquahot.

[twinboat]

Unless your going to use the RV, the fuel will be fine when it warms back up.

[dave&ginny]

Originally Posted by Armye7

This weekend in Ohio temps will fall below 0 and the high won’t reach 20 degrees for at least 3 days. I am going to take my chances and add some Power Service anti gel. Hope this don’t mess up my aquahot.

If you travel in colder areas, it's wise to carry a couple of the "911" red jugs. If the engine starts to hesitate at all, you pour the "911" in the tank. This will quickly solve any waxing problems.

[Armye7]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Unless your going to use the RV, the fuel will be fine when it warms back up.

We are living in the coach so we need the aquahot we aren’t driving anywhere so need the aquahot for heat

[geordi]

You should be fine unless the fuel is from before September. ALL diesel fuel in the USA is winterized every year starting in about September, and this is why there aren't epidemics of gelled fuel and stuck trucks every year.

Adding the Power Service White Bottle will not hurt anything - and you cannot use too much of that stuff. You should be fine.

[Gasman 2]

Larry and Vicky,

Apparently you are staying in one place through the winter and need heat.
Curious how you refuel the coach.
Just to let everyone know why I ask I have refueled diesel pusher in a RV park.
Not really the kind of business we look for but the customer was working for a company we were doing business with.

As you would expect coaches are not easy to fuel from a fuel truck with a flow rate of 60 + gal per minute.

Stay safe and warm.
Richard

[Magic-carpet]

Originally Posted by dave&ginny

If you travel in colder areas, it's wise to carry a couple of the "911" red jugs. If the engine starts to hesitate at all, you pour the "911" in the tank. This will quickly solve any waxing problems.

The "911" helped us out with the farm tractors when the new low sulfur fuel came out years ago. I don't think anyone was ready for that when it first came out in 2005 or maybe 2006?

[wildcatter]

Howes is good but I would use PowerServe anti-gel with cetane boost, #1 diesel has less cetane (octane in gas engines) in it than #2 diesel. #1 diesel also has less lubrication in it then #2 diesel.