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Old 03-02-2021, 07:55 AM   #1
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Does Entegra discourage air pressure winterization?

I believe I've read that some Entegra owners use air pressure but I can't find any procedures for that in the manual. Do you use air pressure? Any cautions or issues?

I've always used antifreeze but I'm sick of trying to get it out of the system when we hit the road. I'm thinking about using air, and thoughts?
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Old 03-02-2021, 08:48 AM   #2
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The problem with air is some people complain that they had used air to blow out the lines but some water is left in a line and to breaks at that location.

When I use air I use no more then 25psi, and spend a lot of time going around to each faucet or connection to drain the water. Refrigerators, washers, and dishwashers are the hard items to remove water from.

I am not sure what grade of Pex Entregra is using but Pex can take freezing without damaging any piping. Since Texas has just had it's first major freeze in 11 years there have been a lot of pipes broken. I have not heard of any with Pex that had any break.
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Old 03-02-2021, 08:56 AM   #3
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My understanding is that the Aqua Hot may not fully drain using compressed air, and the low point(s) in the tube may retain water and subsequently break when frozen.
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:01 AM   #4
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It shouldn't be that difficult to get the antifreeze out of the system after, just run the taps a bit. You aren't by chance getting antifreeze in your freshwater tank are you? With air, pretty difficult to be sure your fridge, dishwasher, washing machine, and aquahot don't have any pools left in them. And you have to put antifreeze down the drains anyway, easiest to do it through the supply lines.
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:25 AM   #5
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Using air requires specialized equipment that not everybody has (e.g. compressor and fittings), and it's a little more error-prone (blowing apart lines, or failing to blow out all the water).

RV antifreeze, by contrast, is widely available and cheap, and, while you can still screw up winterizing with it, it's easier to do properly.

PEX can handle freezing, at least better than copper, but the valves and other fittings can't. And neither can your water pump, macerator, washer, fridge, dishwasher, etc. That is why I use RV antifreeze too. I'm just not confident that 25-30psi is enough to blow out all the water that pools in there.

For what it's worth, in Georgia I used only air. Now that I live in New Hampshire, I use both. In my opinion, RV antifreeze is faster and easier as long as you have a helper to walk around inside while you manage the winterizing tube (those jugs drain fast).
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:36 AM   #6
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In my opinion, RV antifreeze is faster and easier as long as you have a helper to walk around inside while you manage the winterizing tube (those jugs drain fast).
Yes, if you are doing it alone, empty the jugs into a 5 gal pail first.
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:42 AM   #7
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Yes, if you are doing it alone, empty the jugs into a 5 gal pail first.
Or, buy a 1 gal jug of concentrate (Camco for example) and just fill the rest of the 5 gal pail with water from your fresh water tank before you drain it. Also from New Hampshire.
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Old 03-02-2021, 10:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcosdad View Post
My understanding is that the Aqua Hot may not fully drain using compressed air, and the low point(s) in the tube may retain water and subsequently break when frozen.
From the Aqua-Hot 450D Owner's Manual:

Winterization:
When itís time to store a motor home for the winter months or when freezing temperatures are expected, itís crucial to properly winterize the Aqua-Hot to avoid serious damage, requiring a complete system replacement not covered under the Aqua-Hot Limited Warranty Statement. The process of winterization consists of completely draining the domestic water from the system and pumping RV winterization antifreeze through to flush out the system.

Take care,
Stu
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Old 03-02-2021, 11:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcosdad View Post
My understanding is that the Aqua Hot may not fully drain using compressed air, and the low point(s) in the tube may retain water and subsequently break when frozen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by schad View Post
Using air requires specialized equipment that not everybody has (e.g. compressor and fittings), and it's a little more error-prone (blowing apart lines, or failing to blow out all the water).

RV antifreeze, by contrast, is widely available and cheap, and, while you can still screw up winterizing with it, it's easier to do properly.

PEX can handle freezing, at least better than copper, but the valves and other fittings can't. And neither can your water pump, macerator, washer, fridge, dishwasher, etc. That is why I use RV antifreeze too. I'm just not confident that 25-30psi is enough to blow out all the water that pools in there.

For what it's worth, in Georgia I used only air. Now that I live in New Hampshire, I use both. In my opinion, RV antifreeze is faster and easier as long as you have a helper to walk around inside while you manage the winterizing tube (those jugs drain fast).

I have used air on all 4 of my coaches in NY state. Yes you need a compressor and air fitting. But over time they pay for themselves. You can get get a pancake compressor and air fitting for around $120.

The trick is making sure you blow out every line multiple times. including and especially the low point drains. When I do it, I open each faucet and LP drain one by one, and redundantly. I make several passes. I also run the DW and washer on rinse once or twice. Then I return to the LP lines again. The fridge gets the same treatment. The process takes about an hour+. 4 winters have passed with no issues and non of the nasty smell or taste from the AF. Then just pour some AF into the traps.

I do believe Entegra advises against using air because of the AH as another poster has suggested. It's a valid point. YMMV
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Old 03-02-2021, 03:00 PM   #10
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I pay a local dealer to blow out the lines. He adds antifreeze to the traps and drains. He also winterizes my aqua hot. Price is usually around $150.00 Did I mention he hates doing aqua hots but does ours as a favor. I suspect he got burned once. Never had a problem with either of our Entegra’s or our first coach, a Berkshire.
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Old 03-03-2021, 06:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schad View Post
Using air requires specialized equipment that not everybody has (e.g. compressor and fittings), and it's a little more error-prone (blowing apart lines, or failing to blow out all the water).



RV antifreeze, by contrast, is widely available and cheap, and, while you can still screw up winterizing with it, it's easier to do properly.



PEX can handle freezing, at least better than copper, but the valves and other fittings can't. And neither can your water pump, macerator, washer, fridge, dishwasher, etc. That is why I use RV antifreeze too. I'm just not confident that 25-30psi is enough to blow out all the water that pools in there.



For what it's worth, in Georgia I used only air. Now that I live in New Hampshire, I use both. In my opinion, RV antifreeze is faster and easier as long as you have a helper to walk around inside while you manage the winterizing tube (those jugs drain fast).


The jugs do drain fast. I poor five gallons into a five gallon pail. Saves a lot of trips in and out of coach when doing it yourself.
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:50 AM   #12
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26 feet of copper coiled around the burn chamber inside the Aquahot. Thatís why Aquahot recommends using RV Antifeeeze. The fear is that you may not get all the water out using air. If youíve done it, and it works, thatís great. In Colorado where the temps can easily be below zero, I choose to use RV antifreeze, as Iím not so confident in doing the air method myself. At below 0 temps, a small mistake is now a costly mistake.

Oh, if you crack the coil inside the Aquahot, itís a $10k mistake. Antifreeze is cheap and I have a process that gets the antifreeze out of the lines to my liking.

Cheers
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:50 AM   #13
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I pay a local dealer to blow out the lines. He adds antifreeze to the traps and drains. He also winterizes my aqua hot. Price is usually around $150.00 Did I mention he hates doing aqua hots but does ours as a favor. I suspect he got burned once. Never had a problem with either of our Entegraís or our first coach, a Berkshire.
I know there is a way to isolate the AH with respect to anti freeze. I just don't recall how it's done.
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:14 AM   #14
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Yes, if you are doing it alone, empty the jugs into a 5 gal pail first.
For others doing this, check the pail after the first or second fixture. I think I needed more than 5 gallons.

Quote:
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The trick is making sure you blow out every line multiple times. including and especially the low point drains. [...] The process takes about an hour+. [emphasis added]
That's why I used antifreeze. With DW helping, it was about 15 minutes.

We clean/sanitize the fresh water system in spring regardless, just as a matter of policy, so the extra steps to flush out the antifreeze aren't a problem for us.
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