Dreaded Radiator Problems - again!

[rvguy02]

The day before our annual summer trip on a Saturday morning, I noticed a fair amount of radiator fluid coming out. I spoke to Spartan emergency and they said it would be okay to drive once the engine was running and that we could contact them on Monday morning. This is our replacement radiator installed in the winter of 2016 by Spartan. Now that we've completed 2 weeks of our 3 week trip at our campsite, the radiator is clearly losing most of its fluid into the bucket I placed below. More on Spartan in a moment...

We have to move campsites tomorrow about 100 feet away and am wondering if we can drive the coach for less than 5 minutes without much radiator fluid left in the system. If I add more fluid it will all drain out by our departure date on Saturday July 14. Any thoughts on this? Just add the fluid to the fill level or keep the engine on for less than 5-10 minutes with low fluid?

As for the radiator replacement, to say I'm angry is an understatement. After 2.5 years and about 10,000 miles of travel I should not have to spend money for a third radiator. So far Spartan has said we're out of warranty and they can not help financially. They're also claiming they only replace the core nowadays so it's "cheaper".

I'm all ears for any recent experiences people are having with replacing their second radiator. BTW, Spartan is booked through November!!! We'll be passing close by to their facility on the way home and would prefer to have them do it, but they flat out said no way. That will now add time and money to take it elsewhere to have it repaired. VERY frustrating

Thanks for hearing out my rant...

[brobox]

Driving it 100 feet won't hurt anything, the engine won't even be warm. The cooling system holds 17 gallons of coolant.
The new designed radiators started shipping Nov 16. If yours was after that, it should have been the improved design. That is terrible if the new design failed, I hate to hear that. So sorry you are having that problem. If it is out of pocket, I would sure check a local shop for a re-core.

[rvguy02]

Originally Posted by brobox

Driving it 100 feet won't hurt anything, the engine won't even be warm. The cooling system holds 17 gallons of coolant.
The new designed radiators started shipping Nov 16. If yours was after that, it should have been the improved design. That is terrible if the new design failed, I hate to hear that. So sorry you are having that problem. If it is out of pocket, I would sure check a local shop for a re-core.

Our second radiator was from January 2016, so hopefully a new one now will be the "fixed" version. We've lost 2-3 gallons from what I can tell. I'm speaking with Spartan again on Monday to try and get a resolution on this. I'm willing to pay the labor if needed but feel strongly I should not have to pay for the new radiator (although they claim they only replace the core nowadays). 2.5 years is unacceptable to be hit with ANOTHER $2500+ cost especially given the history of the radiator problems with Entegra coaches. I read on one of the posts here that Modine makes the new coach radiators but that Spartan uses cheaper ones for replacement. Seems counter-intuitive to me... Suck it up, show some good will, and fix the blasted problem once and for all.

[brobox]

John, it wasn't just Entegra coaches with the problem. When I was in having mine changed there was also an American Coach on a Spartan chassis in for a replacement as well. Lazy Days had a stack of bad radiator against the wall that came from different brand coaches. It is a shame that Spartan did not issue a recall or extended warranty on the known bad radiators.

[Victory Blue]

It won’t make you feel any better, but I’m sorry to hear about your continuing radiator problems . There’s no way to prove it but early radiator replacements seem to have come from the same bad batch of radiators and were installed before Spartan knew there was a widespread issue with the brand they were using. So, a bad radiator was replaced by another bad radiator; this has happened to multiple owners. IMO, Spartan hasn’t owned up to the problem like they should have.

We had ours replaced in May and Spartan installed a different brand then the original installed on our chassis in late 2015. I still regularly check for leaks because my confidence level is not high.

Keep dogging Spartan to try to get some help. Even out of warranty you might also enlist Entegra’s help to get some recompense.

[rvguy02]

Originally Posted by Victory Blue

It won’t make you feel any better, but I’m sorry to hear about your continuing radiator problems . There’s no way to prove it but early radiator replacements seem to have come from the same bad batch of radiators and were installed before Spartan knew there was a widespread issue with the brand they were using. So, a bad radiator was replaced by another bad radiator; this has happened to multiple owners. IMO, Spartan hasn’t owned up to the problem like they should have.

We had ours replaced in May and Spartan installed a different brand then the original installed on our chassis in late 2015. I still regularly check for leaks because my confidence level is not high.

Keep dogging Spartan to try to get some help. Even out of warranty you might also enlist Entegra’s help to get some recompense.

Thanks for the advice. Our heroine at Entegra (we all know who that wonderful person is ) has already given me some suggestions. I'm VERY glad to know that with 17 gallons of coolant in the system our short drive to a different camp site tomorrow is not going to be a problem. I've already got 3 gallons of coolant ready to load for the trip back home in a week. Maybe Spartan will do the right thing and squeeze me in on my return trip. Folks like us are not asking for the world, but if I were the CEO at Spartan I'd be all over this and making it right. Long-term good will ultimately leads to long-term good business.

[Gary.Jones]

Susie and Stuart

YTou do nto have to run radiator coolant in your coolant system. You can also use distilled water. Of course, you would not want to do that in cold weather but would guess that is not your worry for 3 or 4 more months.

I will raise this issue only if Spartan does not come through, and I have no idea if it is true. In a similar thread about a year ago, one of the people posting said they had a completely new radiator built by a radiator shop from scratch for a good deal less than they were going to have to pay for a Spartan radiator.

I had two replaced in my 15. Both were covered under warranty. I assumed all the problems were resolved by a time when the radiator manufacturer supposedly started dipping the rails of their units in epoxy to stiffen the crimped connections with the side "tanks?". However, there have been periodic reports of owners after late 2016 who had the epoxied radiators still failing.

If anyone really knows the story on what is being installed recently, please elucidate us all. Who made the old ones, and who is making the new ones. As a brand new owner of a 19 Cornerstone, I would like to know that the problem has been resolved. Its been a mess for 3 or 4 years.

Gary

[rvguy02]

Thanks Gary. This Monday will be an "interesting" day on the phone with Spartan and who knows who else! The tip about using distilled water is a good one and would definitely be a short-term money saver. Does the temperature stay as low using only distilled for a 5-6 hour drive?

[Matt D]

The use of distilled water in the short term will have zero adverse effects.

Any temperature difference will be so small as to be unnoticeable.

Drive it.

-Matt

[96 Wideglide]

Originally Posted by rvguy02

Thanks Gary. This Monday will be an "interesting" day on the phone with Spartan and who knows who else! The tip about using distilled water is a good one and would definitely be a short-term money saver. Does the temperature stay as low using only distilled for a 5-6 hour drive?

Don't do it !!!

Wet sleaved diesel engines need proper diesel coolant to protect the cylinder sleaves from pitting.
A few minutes running isn't going to hurt , 5-6 hours, just may!

[rvguy02]

Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide

Don't do it !!!

Wet sleaved diesel engines need proper diesel coolant to protect the cylinder sleaves from pitting.
A few minutes running isn't going to hurt , 5-6 hours, just may!

Thanks. I'll heed your advice and stick with the coolant. Speaking of coolant, does anyone have an opinion about reusing the 3 gallons I've collected from the leak - especially if I drain it? Also, a local guy who used to work for Cummins said their "unofficial fix" for the short-term was to add 8 oz of black pepper flakes. I've heard of this before and understand the logic, but I'm not sure if I'm comfortable doing that.

Thanks again everyone for your advice. Irv2.com is always the place to go for great answers.

[96 Wideglide]

I'm guessing you meant to say 'strain' it.

Should be fine putting it back in.

[Gary.Jones]

Well, Spartan was where i got the advice to use distilled water if I developed a leak and needed a short term fix to get to somewhere that would do the repair. I was not talking a 5 or 6 hour drive.

Also, Spartan ALSO told me that a way to minimize the loss of radiator fluid was to unscrew the radiator cap. Usually, there are two clicks as you loosen the cap. The first click takes a good deal of the pressure off the radiator coolant which slows down the leak. My second radiator crapped out in Casa Grande on my way to Quartzsite, AZ, and they said I would be OK with adding distilled water and loosening the cap to get to Quartzsite, and then to also get me back to the repair shop in Phoenix where I was scheduled to get the radiator fixed. I usually believe what the manufacturer suggest is OK to do....

I stopped several times on the way to Quartzsite and again on the way back to Phoenix to check levels and refilled if there was any loss, but actually there was very little loss of fluid. However, your leak sounds worse.

And finally, have you checked for a loose hose clamp? That much coolant leaking sounds like it could be produced by a loose hose clamp. Be sure and check that first. Look for the source of the coolant, not just what you are catching.

Gary

[jherrin99]

I am on my second Spartan radiator. I have read of quite a few people on their third Spartan radiator. I have read of enough problems here with Spartan radiators that when I have to spend my own hard earned money on a radiator it will definitely not come from Spartan. I do not understand why anyone would spend their money on a radiator from Spartan when they have such a great track record. Any descent radiator shop that works on truck radiators will be able to re-core these radiators or be able to find a new replacement. The only thing I would worry about is that we don't know who manufactured all these inferior radiators for Spartan, so there is no sure way to know you are not going to get one from the same manufacturer. But I do know the track record of Spartan radiators. I drove hundreds of thousand of miles in trucks in the oilfield and we never had radiator issues like this. My coach just barely made 20,000 highway miles and my radiator failed. This is not normal. It is caused by either using inferior materials or an inferior design or both. Spartan should step up and correct their mistake. JMO