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Old 09-12-2018, 06:20 AM   #1
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Email asked are EMS's necessary

I had an email from a new model owner that was told the new transfer switches did not need EMS protection.

If one new owner has been told that, maybe others are being told the same thing. I thought it was important to bring back the post when many of us had that question with our new models and found out the South Wire transfer switch is a "one hit and done" $600.replacement. Long post with a lot of research. Short version an EMS is needed. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/tran...-395924-2.html
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:25 AM   #2
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We took a surge hit in June during a storm in Austin that knocked out the whole KOA for several hours. Once restored our Progressive EMS would not reset. It was replaced at N/c by Progressive under lifetime warranty. I can only imagine the damage/cost if we had not had the EMS!
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:35 AM   #3
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I just installed an HW 50c in FL's hot humid weather as I have unstable power where I store.
If I had it to do over again, I would have purchased a portable, used that until the weather cooled off then install the hard wired and kept the portable as a backup, but I would have been protected not waiting for cool weather.
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Old 09-12-2018, 06:43 AM   #4
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There is a real problem with the common interchangeability of the terms EMS and Surge Protection. It is even more problematic with one brand using the Surge Protector label.

Surge protection is the least of the issues facing an RC. About the only source of an electrical surge is lightening and if close enough, a surge protector won't help.

A EMS (Electrical Management System) is virtually a necessity for a RVer. An EMS will act as a surge protector but more importantly, it will check for high and low voltages, wrong polarity, and Neutral faults. These happen a lot in RV parks.

More than once I have encountered a cross wired 30 amp receptacle. And a floating Neutral that allows one leg of a 50 amp circuit to go too high when the other leg had a load.

Some of the transfer switches today have an EMS built-in though the term EMS is not used. You have to ensure what the device is protecting you from.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:00 AM   #5
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We took a surge hit in June during a storm in Austin that knocked out the whole KOA for several hours. Once restored our Progressive EMS would not reset. It was replaced at N/c by Progressive under lifetime warranty. I can only imagine the damage/cost if we had not had the EMS!
What did You do to restore power after the device failed ?
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:12 AM   #6
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Dale you brought up a very good point. My storage hanger has power fluctuations between 100 and 122v in a matter of minutes, lots of users and A/C's just like an RV park. The transfer switch lets the power though fine, but the low voltage is damaging the roof AC unit. After installing the HW 50 the other day, the EMS kept shedding the A/C unit, never happened before until I realized the new Vega Touch defaults to both battery charges on when power is interrupted. The old Magnum I could set shore power to 5 amps and never had a problem. New Vega Touch not so much.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:18 AM   #7
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My electronics training, both in the US Navy as a missile radar tech, with a fortune 500 company as a field service technician repairing complex industrial electronics, and as a 30 year small business owner has shown:
As far as "surge protection"(lightning), everything that exists in consumer retail is "one hit and done." Everything. Period. Some available devices tout a "lifetime warrantee" and use that to say they are not "one hit and done," because in the unlikely event you get struck by lightning, they will send you a new one.... Hmmm.

I've been traveling in motorhomes since 2008. I've never been hit by lightning. I've never been anywhere where anyone was hit by lightning. While I've experienced a bunch of low voltage situations, including self inflicted trying to run a 50 amp rv off a 20 amp garage outlet (I've melted down a dozen 20-30 amp converters, several 30-50 dogbones, and 2 50 amp plugs.)
Down to 105 volts, everything still works.
I've seen some bad 30 amp receptacles, mostly in older state parks, but the breakers have tripped as designed.

I've never seen a mis-wired campground post, and expect I never will. After all, the only way this could happen is if I were the first one in that site, 'cause then it would get fixed.

If I have doubts about the condition of the post at a campground, I get out my meter and check it, and if there is a problem, I don't use it.

The system used in our Entegra's is a "full featured EMS" and will protect against everything that the highly touted models from another company will.

My only concern is that the "all in one" EMS/Transfer switch Entegra uses could fail in such a way that the transfer switch function would also fail and the coach would be left without power. So far, my research shows that is not possible.
If it happens, I'll get out my toolbox and jumper around it.

Please hold the flames. I hesitated in posting this because I know how many have a differing opinion on this.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:27 AM   #8
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What did You do to restore power after the device failed ?


After flipping breakers and checking everything, including read outs on EMS of 120 per leg 0 amp draw and E0 error code, I finally removed the EMS from the park pedestal and plugged in coach directly. Built in system on my CS then clicked and voila, ac units cranked up.
Contacted Progressive and they immediately said they would send a new unit.
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Old 09-12-2018, 07:31 AM   #9
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After flipping breakers and checking everything, including read outs on EMS of 120 per leg 0 amp draw and E0 error code, I finally removed the EMS from the park pedestal and plugged in coach directly. Built in system on my CS then clicked and voila, ac units cranked up.
Contacted Progressive and they immediately said they would send a new unit.
So while you think the device "saved" something, fact is it failed and left you without power, and removing it was your only solution.
Did anyone else in the campground that you talked to suffer any permanent damage to their RV?
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:00 AM   #10
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Jim, people are sure free to do with their MH's as they like. Most are not master electricians and wouldn't have the first clue how to switch wires around in the transfer switch to continue on with the trip or replace the transfer switch.

The family friend that changed our bad AC is a Coleman dealer. He has been in the commercial AC business for 40 year and now semi retired and does MH's as a side business. He told me the #1 cause of RV AC failures was low voltage. I got to believe that professional, but that is just me.

People are free to do as they like, but nice to know both sides of the story so people can make their own decisions. I just passed on what I leaned about the transfer switch. If it's hit, your are down and there is nothing to save you except a service person with spare parts.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:25 AM   #11
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Would low voltage also effect home air conditioners ?

I've never had a surge guard on any of my homes, been thru some power issues over the years, including brown outs, and the old window units seem to last for ever.

IMHO, dirty condenser coils are the leading cause of compressor failure. Of course that creates more load on the compressor and that will drag down the voltage. Humm ?
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:41 AM   #12
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So while you think the device "saved" something, fact is it failed and left you without power, and removing it was your only solution.

Did anyone else in the campground that you talked to suffer any permanent damage to their RV?


Only one that I know of. Being a Monday there were not many rigs in the KOA and most were TT. The other guy had an inexpensive surge protector at the post.

My thinking is that the EMS is a huge protector of open neutrals and other problems and the price to value is superb compared to repairs on the coach.
As a 22 year old college senior I bought a used 14x80 mobile home for my now bride of 42 years. Had it moved to a nice park in our college town. Guy moved it and leveled it on blocks. I got there and plugged it in. Blew out every light bulb I had. Stupidly I went and bought all new bulbs and reset the breaker. Git really bright and blew every bulb filament. Called my engineer dad who said to take my meter and test the outlet fir an open neutral. Bingo. Apparently the previous mobile hit the plug sticking up out of the ground enough to dislodge the neutral. Redid that wire clamp and I was off to the store for more bulbs!
Have stayed in quite a few older RV parks where the pedestals are not great, and have heard of folks with same issue. $300 EMS= peace of mind.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidH2 View Post
We took a surge hit in June during a storm in Austin that knocked out the whole KOA for several hours. Once restored our Progressive EMS would not reset. It was replaced at N/c by Progressive under lifetime warranty. I can only imagine the damage/cost if we had not had the EMS!


What did the neighboring campers suffer? I’m sure there was talk going on during that time.
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Old 09-12-2018, 09:48 AM   #14
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it's refreshing to see multiple points of view put out, with the understanding that many times, there is more than one way to see something, different strokes...
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