Engine Errors J1939 & ABS

[Fattman-Litlboy]

Yesterday we attempted to start the coach at an RV Resort near Sedona, AZ, and the display alarmed with red lights flashing. After the engine started, none of our gauges worked except the gas level, and both air pressure guages. Although the engine started smoothly, the tach, oil pressure, engine temp, alternator guages were not functioning. I spoke to a tech (Michael) at Spartan in Charlotte, and we discussed the error messages. He said the ABS is not communicating with the ECU, and not verifying J1939 wiring. He advised I check several fuses which were OK, chassis battery connections which were fine, and the rear aft fuse box back by the DEF tank on P/S. All were fine. We did have an Inline mini, sold by Cummins, attached a year ago to the diagnostic port by the steering column, that we removed a week ago, so this may possibly be the cause. We're working with Cummins to see if that is a potential cause, but so far they have not contacted us. We reset the power salesman switch, but no improvement. We were told it's ok to drive the coach, but we won't have guages. We have an appointment with Massey's Diesel, an authorized Spartan facility in Phoenix at end of month, so hopefully they can repair it.
Jim

[Fattman-Litlboy]

Here's two photos of the dash.

[757driver]

Jim,

That is a strange one indeed. Let us know what the final fix is.

[Gary.Jones]

Jim

I have encountered very similar problems. I published them in a thread that dealt with my problems with the WABCO OnGuard RADAR system. I believe the threads involving this were the "Some things that I have learned about my 2019 Cornerstone..... Part 5 or 4 ...

Anyhow, I had massive problems with my dash. On my coach it is the 19 Cornerstone and the Valid digital dash. However, there was bad communications along the J1939 CAN-BUS system. Our coaches differ, but the Can-Bus runs all over the coach and I think is the same in our coaches. One place mine runs is to a connector right near the bottom of the steering column where there is a connector. Then it travels to the Valid digital dash, and then through the firewall to the WabCo RADAR unit mounted on the front bottom of the generator slide fiberglass. There is also a terminating resistor right beside the RADAR unit. I was getting 10 or 22 different error messages on the digital dash. Many of them had to do with communication errors between the rear of the coach and the dash area. Speedometer would show bad readings or erratic speeds. Engine would run roughly. Allison would shift very hard from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3. It was a real mess. Spartan's best guess was that it had to do with the Can-Bus. They said they had other coaches with problems that involved water getting into the terminating resistor near the Radar unit. We waterproofed a connector on CAN-Bus wiring that came out of the Allison tranny and we waterproofed the terminating resistor unit up near the RADAR.

Now, if we moved the terminating resistor from the RADAR unit connector and broke the CAN-BUS at the connector by the steering wheel, that solved many of the engine problems, BUT then the digital dash was getting no data. All the gauges were there but no data was shown on any of the digital gauges. Clearly, the bus carries the information from the rear of the coach up to the dash and gauges. If you break that path by putting the terminating resistor by the steering wheel shaft, it resolved some engine and ABS problems, but made the dash dead with no readings.

This is an edit: There are at least two connectors near the base of the steering column in the driver area.... one is the ODB connector where you can connect diagnostic devices. The other is simply a 4 or 6 wire plastic junction connector (mine is clear plastic I think). That is a junction in the CAN-Bus. You can see wires going in, through, and out of that connector. You can break the connection there. That is the connector I am talking about.... not the big round black OBD connector.


If you put something else (a different piece of equipment) in the can-bus at the base of the steering wheel, then you may have blocked information from getting to your dash. if you removed what was in there, I am betting you have a bad connection or the connection is not firmly inserted.

The guy that I talked a lot with this problem at Spartan was Dave Martens. I'd suggest that you talk to him. My problem is still probably not cured although I am just not using the RADAR unit for ACC any more. They have been thinking that my problem has been water intrusion or a bad wire or connector or a solder joint or pin. Talking to Dave Martens may help you.

Lot of similarities.... bet you have a similar problem I have.

Gary

[DSL417]

Just a thought...you have Trip Tek and Mobil Eye as well. The Trip Tek is an 8 or 10 prong plug under the wiring below the access panel in front of the passenger. Pull it. See what happens. The mobile eye also has a plug behind the far right dash panel. The cable wil have mobile eye label on it. Pull it. Or at least ask the Spartan CS guys (mike Flowers is who I have been working similar zeroing out with for two years now) with the same ABS code. I get mine going down the road with a wheel speed and a transmission speed error. I have traveled about 4K without the Trip Tek plugged in, and I have had no additional faults. I also had had J1939 comm errors and some loss of power while traveling down the road. When they pull the history on the codes, I had over 2000 faults per 1000 miles.

Send me a PM with a phone number and we can talk. I think we may have had similar; maybe I can give you some questions to ask. I doubt Massey can do anything for you, and it doesn’t happen often enough for the CS guys to remember JMHO).

I just reread your post and saw you are working with Mike...ask him if this doesn’t sound similar to Dave’s issue.

[Fattman-Litlboy]

Thanks for all your comments. I will keep you appraised as this gets resolved.
Jim

[Gary.Jones]

Dont forget to try also rebooting the coach after you removed something. Turn off the 12 volt house and try killing power to just about everything else too.... on my coach, the main inverter power switches, and the 4 main circuit breakers near the batteries... A whole system reboot tends to produce amazing fixes.

Gary

[Slambam]

I had the same problem coming back from Florida a couple months ago. Had a tech plug in and reset and thought that may have been it but no. So I took it to a Spartan dealer near my house and they found a connector in the rear engine compartment was filled with water. Now they replaced and put a new one in covered with a shrink-wrap around it. I don't have a pic or I would of posted it. Not really good with computers but its worth a few min to check all your connectors in your rear engine compartment. I don't think there is that many. Worth a shot. Good luck I hope its that easy.

[Jalisa]

Exactly! Mine is wrapped heavily in electrical tape now.

[Gary.Jones]

Slambam

I know that you dont already have a picture of the connector that you found filled with water, but are you able to take a new picture of it and its location and post it. Also, if that is a problem, could you describe the connector and the wires that it is connector to and their routing in the engine compartment. That would really help all of who are struggling with these sorts of issues.

Gary

[Jalisa]

You can see the big glob of electrical tape on the right at the end of the red wire, going forward into the engine compartment. That’s the offending connector. Please forgive me- I’m not computer certified.
Lisa

[DSL417]

Looks like another wiring system that connects to the J1939 that when something goes bad it IDs itself as an ABS fault. I don't know why, and I don't think Spartan does completely, but that is the way it is. Troubleshooting which wiring system it is that fails and displays itself as an ABS error is a real pain, and can be an expensive and time consuming process, especially if you are no longer under warrantee.

[Magic-carpet]

Originally Posted by Jalisa

Attachment 238566
You can see the big glob of electrical tape on the right at the end of the red wire, going forward into the engine compartment. That’s the offending connector. Please forgive me- I’m not computer certified.
Lisa

That's the backup beeper that has been disconnected. I'd venture to say that more than half of the beepers out there are disconnected and wrapped in tape. It should only see voltage when the transmission is in reverse.

[Jpcoleman]

I think the offender is the taped connector along the lower frame 2 levels down from the disconnected reverse siren. It is in the shadow of the fuel line.