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Old 06-16-2021, 07:23 AM   #1
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Entegra air brake issues

Hi, I normally post in the Newmar forum since I own a DSDP but I am trying to help out a friend here.

He has a 45' integra 2012 and he had issues with cruise not working. Someone at a fuel station noticed his brake lights were on. He also thought his wheels were exceptionally hot for some reason when he got near them.

Tapping the pedal and releasing quickly put the brake lights out. So, he drained is air tanks and a ton of water and rust came out. Once back on the road he said his cruise would work if he applied the brake pedal and released it quickly.

He as able to get home with it and now I am trying to help him with taking care of this issue.

I noticed that the brake valve under the front hood has rust where the air bleeds after pedal application. There's quite a bit there so moisture has been through that valve quite a bit.

Is there any way to remove the air lines and lube that valve or is replacement the only alternative. I would think the valves would be stainless and not affected by the rust other than some caking of the rust around them. Is it possible to clean the valve on the coach or are we into removing it? Any advice appreciated.

Edit to add: This is on a Freightliner chassis.
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Old 06-16-2021, 07:28 AM   #2
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Well, the first issue is that his air dryer has long ago FAILED.


Not sure there is any quick/inexpensive fix for water and rust in the air system-- either suspension or air brakes.


Falls into the realm of "pay me now or pay me (a LOT MORE) later".


He will need someone very familiar with air systems to remove and inspect both suspension and brake system components.


Could he find a simple solution to his current problem-- quite possibly, but that does not mean his coach is safe to drive.
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Old 06-16-2021, 07:59 AM   #3
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Ask him if he has ever replaced his air dryer cylinder (which on my coach is in the passenger side compartment at the very rear of the coach) Mine is made by Meritor Corp. and looks like a very large (larger than normal) oil filter. Some owners never change those and if it fails, then he is not filtering out (drying) moisture in any of the air that is going into his air system. My memory is that the air dryer should be replaced every two years (check me on that).

I would not be trying to deal with this issue by myself..... this issue would go to a well known truck or coach repair facility.... if he is close to a good coach sales place, that would be good. If he is not close and a big semi diesel sort of repair place is near, that would be my second preference.

Gary
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Old 06-16-2021, 08:06 AM   #4
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The same thing happened to a friend that moved to Florida and never drained the water out of the air tanks or serviced the air dryer. That repair was $8,000 as the entire system Including the rusted tanks had to be replaced
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Old 06-16-2021, 02:13 PM   #5
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Fefanatic
The problem could be in the E8 treadle valve but I would be more inclined to be looking at the relay valve (R14 or R12). Not sure what one you have but the R14 relay valve send air to the brake chambers to apply the brakes & it has an internal quick release valve in it that will release the air so the brakes will release, if you have the R12, it does the same thing but the R12 doesnít have an internal quick release valve in it, it will have a separate valve know as a quick release valve. If either of these valve gets debris in it or gets a milky type fluid in it (Walter mixed with oil) then the valve will not work properly.
Can these valves be taken apart & cleaned, yes, but all you are doing is delaying the issue. It is better to just replace the valve (R14) or valves (R12 & quick release. Another option to try is to put a lot of air brake antifreeze in it to help clean the valve up. The only problem with this is all the crud that is in the valves will go through out the air system & possible plug up something else.
The air brake antifreeze is used in the wintertime to help get the moisture out of the air system because the brakes will seize up due to frozen air lines or valves.
To answer your other question yes you can blow out the air lines if you disconnect both ends of the line but that will not always clean the valves, just moves the debris around in the valve.
My suggestion would be to replace the R14 valve, or if you have the R12, then replace that along with the quick release valve.
Hope I explained it so it could be understood.
Thanks Bob
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Old 06-16-2021, 02:55 PM   #6
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I'm sure everyone here means well, but the thing to do is call the Freightliner 800 number. It is staffed 24/7, and whomever answers will probably have better info/ideas than inmates of the forum.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:05 PM   #7
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Question for group (related): How long before your air bleeds down to the point of getting aural annunciation when you go to start? Seems for me it is about 4 days.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:12 PM   #8
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Hello! This is an inmate of the forum.
A question was asked, in this forum, and some of us attempt to be helpful.
It is their decision, whether or not, to take anyoneís advice.
What is the purpose of a forum, with the ability to ask otherís questions...if the only answer, is to call the factory?
Another purpose of this forum, is to provide some ideas of the problems.
Many have complained of garages and dealerships taking advantage of them.
The information presented here might help someone avoid that. And also help others understand certain systems that they might be having problems with.
Anytime I see an RVer needing help, Iím going to attempt to help them, as I would anyone else.
Need to go now, because the guard just rang the chow bell, and I need to get in line
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuggsnMe View Post
Fefanatic

The problem could be in the E8 treadle valve but I would be more inclined to be looking at the relay valve (R14 or R12). Not sure what one you have but the R14 relay valve send air to the brake chambers to apply the brakes & it has an internal quick release valve in it that will release the air so the brakes will release, if you have the R12, it does the same thing but the R12 doesnít have an internal quick release valve in it, it will have a separate valve know as a quick release valve. If either of these valve gets debris in it or gets a milky type fluid in it (Walter mixed with oil) then the valve will not work properly.

Can these valves be taken apart & cleaned, yes, but all you are doing is delaying the issue. It is better to just replace the valve (R14) or valves (R12 & quick release. Another option to try is to put a lot of air brake antifreeze in it to help clean the valve up. The only problem with this is all the crud that is in the valves will go through out the air system & possible plug up something else.

The air brake antifreeze is used in the wintertime to help get the moisture out of the air system because the brakes will seize up due to frozen air lines or valves.

To answer your other question yes you can blow out the air lines if you disconnect both ends of the line but that will not always clean the valves, just moves the debris around in the valve.

My suggestion would be to replace the R14 valve, or if you have the R12, then replace that along with the quick release valve.

Hope I explained it so it could be understood.

Thanks Bob
If the brake lights are staying on, its the treddle valve, not relay valves.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:25 PM   #10
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Twinboat, not necessarily true. If the relay valves are not releasing the air, then there is still air in the brake line system. The brake light switch is installed in the service brake system, and still has air to it.
So the treadle valve, as you press down on it, sends air thru the system. When you release the valve, with your foot, air stops going thru the system ( providing the treadle valve is working properly), the relay valve, in return, applies the brakes....and dumps the air out of the system.
If the air isn’t dumped out of the system, the air brake light switch, will stay energized, illuminating the brake lights. Causing the service brakes to drag, and get hot.
As the OP has originally stated
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Old 06-17-2021, 08:36 AM   #11
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Getting the valve fixed sounds like only half of the resolution. I'd be very worried about the rust colored moisture from the ejectors. I had an issue with a valve remaining open, which overloaded the air dryer and caused my entire secondary air system to get rusted, which then was fixed by Spartan. It was a 40 hour job plus parts. It was a warranty issue but I think the cost was north of 5k. Fortunately my primary system was fine but I'm worried about your friends braking systems.
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