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DSL417 · 11-02-2014, 06:07 AM

Just completed annual trip to Charlotte (Spartan), Middlebury (Entegra), and Bremen (Precision). Thought I might pass on a few thoughts.

- Don't go that way without an appointment (at least April-October). Entegra and Spartan will try to accommodate if you have an emergency, but they can only do so much.

- Spartan did a warrantee realignment (new coach was drifting and the steering wheel was not horizontal). Needed it. Also had them weigh, adjust tire pressures, and adjust ride height. Rides like a dream now. Also had them go through the chassis of coach and tie up any loose wire bundles and fix any chafing (coach and chassis). Not much, but worth $50.

- Precision - big disappointment. First, don't go without an appointment, and make sure (suggest confirming with precision) if Entegra is scheduling your appointment. I am concerned that there may be a bit of attitude problem on the factory floor with the loss of most of the coach business. My warrantee paint work was a disappointment (especially since I got to pay for two nights in a hotel while they screwed it up the first time). They have allocate labor for two warrantee coach repairs a week. Some coaches are seeing a peeling of paint close to the silicone edges around the 13 and earlier coaches. Could either be a painting over the sealant peeling, or Ted Cook mentioned that some sealants may have had a chemical reaction with the paint. Very disappointed with some mod work that I had requested on the interior. Wasn't a big job, and they just couldn't find the time to work it. Paul's folks do great work, but appear to prefer the larger, more profitable jobs. Very little cabinet or TV lift experience.

- Entegra - Did good work, but did take longer than expected. Tech became sick on day 3 and 4; delayed and extended work as work transitioned to new tech. OTOH, they fixed everything they could repair. Very pleased with results. Some of the things done on the new coach: buffed scratches in tile out and cleaned rollers on slides to stop recurrence (replaced tile that had major scratch from rig or something drug across it0; repaired leak that came from missing screw at the front end of the drain trough on exterior of coach; repaired short in passenger chair and straightened arm of driver's chair; a lot of little cosmetic things. Finally, found all major an minor squeaks and rattles, and foamed the front of the step well to reduce road noise. Bottom line, very pleased.

Comments on a few of discussions in next post.

DSL417 · 11-02-2014, 06:34 AM

As a follow on, many of you know that I am a proponent of working issues with Entegra directly; and you probably know that I rail occasionally about quality in the industry. I thought I might comment on discussions I had with several at Entegra. And FWIW, Entegra has slowed production from the highs they had in 2013 to introduce better QC and process on the line.

I ask to spend some time with their lead QC person. Turns out, that while they have beefed up quality inspectors on the floor, their first addition several months ago, was an improved inspection of coaches prior to delivery to the dealers, and I talked with the manager of this function. They have a checklist of 349 elements they check before the coach departs. If it fails any of these elements, the coach goes back to the end of the factory line for repair...note any of the elements. [note, that doesn't mean that a coach will arrive at the dealer without an issue...after all, with the roads, the coach usually gets a beating for a few miles before delivery].

That said, I took this manager around my coach and showed him some things that a new coach owner sees when he gets his coach, scratches, sawdust, uneven surfaces, kinked AH lines, etc (including some things on my old Anthem when I got it, like the tile). None of these were on his "list"; I think the discussion was eye opening for him. He was attentive and appeared to me ready to accept new challenges and add things to his list to look at (aiming headlights might be a good example, for instance). This was a good visit and indicative of changes they are making to improve quality. That said, if your coach arrives a week late, it may be because it failed something in this inspection and the company is demanding it be fixed rather than forwarded for a later fix. I think this function started in May 2014.

I then had a very senior Entegra rep give me an hour out of his very busy schedule to talk quality and quality processes in general. They are very focused on improving quality processes at the individual worker level. I won't get into all he is doing, as he views this as a quest, from a differentiation perspective. I offered to him several ideas on providing structure to his quality process approach, and saw him purchase the technical literature on implementing and leadership in introducing quality and quality leadership in the workplace...a mark of a true leader is the willingness to read and identify the latest on techniques and ideas to improve process in the workplace. Needless to say, I am very pleased with what I heard and saw in this regard at Entegra.

The adage goes, "quality is a journey". JMHO, Entegra is embracing the steps necessary to take that journey. Against the environment where they are selling everything that they can make as fast as they make it suggests that they still value improving the quality of the product, even if they have to slow production and that is proven in their approach.

Also, Entegra will significantly expand their service function with the intro of the new factory floor. They are also adding customer service lounges and coach parking space. They appear to be moving rapidly to expand CS and service functionality to respond to more coaches on the road.

As a sidelight, a visit to the Newmar factory just reinforced the quality built in these two manufacturers lines...but it also brought a stark reality to the forefront...Entegra is producing approx 10-12 coaches a week, Newmar is producing 40 coaches a week, and who knows how many coaches Bob Tiffen is doing a week.

hogdriver · 11-02-2014, 06:39 AM

Thanks Dave & Beth. Good report. Hopefully everyone at Entegra understands the owner community wants a nicer product,and is not just bitching. IMO

brobox · 11-02-2014, 06:40 AM

Excellent informative post, thanks Dave. Your Precision discussion affects me personally with the bubbled paint. I will now have it fixed at Creative Coach. Precision has had my coach enough times and still lots of flaws. Their quality is not the same on "my" coach as it was on my TS. Glad to have a current update.

As for the "attitude problem on the factory floor" I wonder who caused that? If you can't or won't paint, it will come back to bite you.

Your post # 2..Atta Boy! Dave. Not to beat a dead horse.... I am still VERY hurt being a strong supporter of Entegra to have had my MH delivered in the condition it was. I am glad to hear that Tadd is making good his promise that it will never happen again. You pointing out those issues on your brand new coach will hopefully be a big help to all of us. Thank you!

DSL417 · 11-02-2014, 06:44 AM

Chuck,

I don't know the reasons for buying their own paint function, but I think it was control over the process.

As to the bubbling, primarily over the caulking at joints, they seemed to do a pretty good job. My main issue had more to do with scheduling, oversight, quality control, and attention to detail. Just not a good visit...which was a first, compared to previous visits to Precision.

brobox · 11-02-2014, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417

Chuck,

I don't know the reasons for buying their own paint function, but I think it was control over the process.

As to the bubbling, primarily over the caulking at joints, they seemed to do a pretty good job. My main issue had more to do with scheduling, oversight, quality control, and attention to detail. Just not a good visit...which was a first, compared to previous visits to Precision.

Again, just me.....I have had two experiences with Precision....both bad. There is a well known custom coach company much closer to home to take care of the new paint issues while under warranty. I am going to let it continue to "cure" before addressing the issue.

CoreyinWP · 11-02-2014, 07:24 AM

who knows how many coaches Bob Tiffen is doing a week.....

I read slowing down to 12/day.

hawgguy · 11-02-2014, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL417

I think this function started in May 2014.

Yay! My coach was built in July 2014. Maybe it got a little extra love.

Thank you for your detailed report. I don't think I'd call it a post-mortem; as the patient didn't die. I am not planning a trip for at least a year or so unless something major comes up. I do have a small (10-12 inch) section of bubbling paint along a caulked seam. Your experience (and Chuck's) make me want to avoid the extra scheduling & stop at Precision and find somewhere in Texas capable to perform this small repair. Maybe by next year all of the paint repair will be in house. Unless Entegra wants Precision to fix their own problem.

brobox · 11-02-2014, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawgguy

Maybe by next year all of the paint repair will be in house. Unless Entegra wants Precision to fix their own problem.

My last discussion with Entegra was that they were having Precision fix the paint problems under their warranty. However that could change at any time. It has been back and forth who's fault it is. Watching mine, I am leaning more to the sealant than prep work. Prep work would have shown up much sooner. Mine started 10 months after the paint date on the bathroom cabinet sticker.

Jerry0312 · 11-02-2014, 08:46 AM

Dave thanks for the summary of the Entegra visit. I wish I had been physically able to get more involved during my visit. Mobility issues with arthritis certainly cramp one's style. All our issues were addressed to our satisfaction before departure. the only recurrence has been with chassis air pressure loss. It is better but not "fixed". Will continue to wrestle with that locally. Overall very satisfied with support from Joyce, Morgan, Rich and Don during our visit.

RRDefector · 11-02-2014, 10:43 AM

Thank you Dave for taking the time for all of us. Of course as a future Entegra Owner it has particular meaning to me. But i feel if Entegra is willing to listen to the consumer and try to tackle what must be daunting QC control it can only help them in the long run and help us the consumer at the same time. I know for a fact that ALL manufactures have QC issues to some degree or another. None are immune due to the lack of automation in the MH assembly. I see and hear about it daily since i signed on to work with RVOne. From my perspective no manufacturer truly cares more for the customer than Entegra does. Guess that makes me a Poster Boy? So be it then.. Proud to be one. Thanks again Dave.. All good info👍👍

Robert & Jana Stanton... Birthing a 20..something CornerStone 44B

"007" · 11-02-2014, 11:10 AM

Interesting posts Dave, the competition between Newmar and Entegra should keep them both on their toes.
Newmar before they build their paint shops use to farm out new coach's, because of load, to Precision for painting and at the time did not seem to cause the problems with sealant locations on coach, Newmar was probably using a different type.
Good luck to us both MFG's for future improvements.

oceanmoho · 11-02-2014, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brobox

My last discussion with Entegra was that they were having Precision fix the paint problems under their warranty. However that could change at any time. It has been back and forth who's fault it is. Watching mine, I am leaning more to the sealant than prep work. Prep work would have shown up much sooner. Mine started 10 months after the paint date on the bathroom cabinet sticker.

I am about to take delivery of a Topaz 15 CS. Pat Carrol has been updating me with pics using the new "In House" painting facility. I thought it would be interesting to share the update photos. Entegra is very proud, of retaining QC as a method of evolving. The painting process is quite extensive and should not be rushed merely from increased production pressure. In this process, they missed something, caught it, and proceeded to fixing it.
Thank You Entegra!

waterboy10 · 11-02-2014, 12:08 PM

Flora and I were in that same senior official's office just before Dave and there is no question that there is a very positive vibe going on at Entegra. He actually listened to a suggestion from my wife that I believe they will implement (Really simple but could be dramatic in look). I am hoping that this attitude will extend down the line to all their employees and as a result as owners we will benefit in resale etc down the line. I went with Dave on the Newmar tour and I believe I saw alot of production (They make almost 2000 per year all sizes) but all in all I believe the construction techniques used by Entegra (Walls bolted to the frame, better aluminum reinforcements as well as more care with insulation - Spartan chassis) is superior. Now if we can only get a few changes in the interior with colors and floorplans we would be the best. No doubt Newmar is a quality product but it was amazing that each coach on the line was dramatically different - 30' Gasser next to a 45 Londonaire next to a Mountainaire next to a King Air - talk about having to really organize a production line and train employees. I was surprised to learn that Newamr does all types of repair and maintenance on all coaches not just their own line as they have a large maintenance facility on their campus. Something to keep in mind if you get into a bind.