Entegra quality

[Nowabeachbum]

I’m not even sure what this thread is about? The op said every Entegra he looked at was broken. What was broken? I know that NIRVC has pulled parts off of new coaches to get me moving so I wouldn’t have to wait on parts so I guess I left a lot of broken coaches in my wake.
Anyone that comes from the manufacturing industry knows that zero defects are a fantasy but you try your best not to have them cause they are very expensive. Unfortunately, sometimes whether its misapplied product or simply stuff happens, things break, then you try to establish is it a fluke or recurring problem. How do they determine that? With cars, they put millions of test miles on them(comparing cars and motorhomes is pointless)! For Entegra, who build in the hundreds a year, they rely on their “crash test dummies”, us! Now think of how many systems there are on a motorhome, the opportunities for problems are endless!
If you want a trouble-free experience, don’t buy any motorhome period, particularly a new one! I’ve had a Jayco Seneca and 5 Entegras and not one was even close to trouble-free but not one stopped me from using it when I wanted to, except the toilet problem was a bit of an issue! I think Entegra works as hard as any manufacturer to build a quality product which is why I keep buying them. When they don’t, I won’t!

[MRUSA14]

Well said, Gary. Anybody who thinks owning and maintaining a motorhome will be like owning a car is in fantasy land. Knocking the manufacturers or ranting about quality control will never change the fact that these things are hand built and have lots of complex systems, hence many chances for something to fail. New or used, Brand X or Brand Y, there will always be things going wrong. If that upsets you, don't buy one.

Having said that, some manufacturers do a better job than others. Entegra is one of the better ones.

[LWBAZ]

I don't think anyone said or intended to imply that owning a motorhome is like owning a car (or a boat or an airplane). I certainly didn't.

I was simply making the point that there is a rather prevalent tendency to excuse quality issues, defects and failures in motorhomes so long as the manufacturer didn't build the part, component or subsystem that fails.

Anyone is free to do that if he or she so desires. It strikes me as similar to dining in a nice restaurant, paying good money for an expensive meal, and saying it's not the restaurant's fault if the steak is tough and full of gristle.

[Nowabeachbum]

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

I don't think anyone said or intended to imply that owning a motorhome is like owning a car (or a boat or an airplane). I certainly didn't.

I was simply making the point that there is a rather prevalent tendency to excuse quality issues, defects and failures in motorhomes so long as the manufacturer didn't build the part, component or subsystem that fails.

Anyone is free to do that if he or she so desires. It strikes me as similar to dining in a nice restaurant, paying good money for an expensive meal, and saying it's not the restaurant's fault if the steak is tough and full of gristle.

Larry, with all the respect in the world, you kind of did! Comparing the AC in a Cadillac and using the Learjet example. I’ve had experience selling to the car industry, the airplane industry and the Rv industry and they are such different animals!
Here’s my point. I worked for a company that sold heating and air conditioning for mobile equipment. My call on automotive was sitting in a room full of HVAC specialists and them telling me the specs of what they want in their system, the size and schedule. My quote back to them will have about $250,000. in just tooling. My call to the airplane manufacturer was “we use the exact same txv that you use in your generic product” but we need them to have a blue dot certificate, necessary for anything sold for airplane use. Which means that we have to charge $150. for our over the counter $15. part.
The call to the rv industry will be meeting with 1 or 2 engineers that literally know nothing about hvac because that is just one of the many systems that they are responsible for. You combine low volume product with multiple systems, none of which can actually be custom designed and invariably you are going to make mistakes.
I think what separates good and bad manufacturers is how they handle their mistakes. Some blame everybody else and make it as hard as possible to recover your cost. Entegra, at least what I have seen, step up, admit their mistakes and try to help minimize the pain. Then they do look to the supplier or themselves to improve the product. So for me I consider Entegra to be a quality built product, as good as Cadillac or Learjet, certainly not but I look at them through a different lens.
And above all this is JMHO and my warped way of looking at things!

[Ann n Gene]

Originally Posted by Nowabeachbum

Larry, with all the respect in the world, you kind of did! Comparing the AC in a Cadillac and using the Learjet example. I’ve had experience selling to the car industry, the airplane industry and the Rv industry and they are such different animals!
Here’s my point. I worked for a company that sold heating and air conditioning for mobile equipment. My call on automotive was sitting in a room full of HVAC specialists and them telling me the specs of what they want in their system, the size and schedule. My quote back to them will have about $250,000. in just tooling. My call to the airplane manufacturer was “we use the exact same txv that you use in your generic product” but we need them to have a blue dot certificate, necessary for anything sold for airplane use. Which means that we have to charge $150. for our over the counter $15. part.
The call to the rv industry will be meeting with 1 or 2 engineers that literally know nothing about hvac because that is just one of the many systems that they are responsible for. You combine low volume product with multiple systems, none of which can actually be custom designed and invariably you are going to make mistakes.
I think what separates good and bad manufacturers is how they handle their mistakes. Some blame everybody else and make it as hard as possible to recover your cost. Entegra, at least what I have seen, step up, admit their mistakes and try to help minimize the pain. Then they do look to the supplier or themselves to improve the product. So for me I consider Entegra to be a quality built product, as good as Cadillac or Learjet, certainly not but I look at them through a different lens.
And above all this is JMHO and my warped way of looking at things!

Very well said because I agree 100%. [emoji2]

[Rollin101]

Everyone seems to think Entegra a/c units are junk and maybe they don’t last like they should. However, Entegra used Dometic a/c units up to mid 2013 and everyone complained about how noisy they were inside the coach. Entegra would probably still be using Dometic units except they wouldn’t promise Entegra that they would keep enough units in their warehouse to cover failures so Entegra optied to go with Coleman. Sometimes changes are made for reasons not readily obvious.

[Matt D]

A while back, the OP asked a question regarding trip interruption.

In 8 or so years, we’ve had zero trips cancelled due to mechanical issues.

While that sounds impressive, please realize that this statistic includes fixing the Precision Temp water heater in our Phaeton more times than I can remember.

It also includes many on the road repairs, or large and small items.

It also includes recovering our Aspire from the shoulder of I-10 after we lost an air compressor, and pretty much everyone said it needed to be towed.

Life with an RV isn’t without risk of mechanical breakdown.

I guess I have a disorder which manifests itself by refusing to admit defeat, and the willingness to do pretty much anything to keep the wheels turning.

My tool box is too heavy. I know way too much about esoteric coach systems, and my fallback is a network of people at Entegra, Spartan, and various friends who are willing to share their time and effort helping me understand what problem I’m currently facing.

I recognize this sounds bleak.

However, when I sit on our couch at home and virtually every picture we have on our electronic frame is of some amazing trip in the MH, I feel like we are doing the right thing.

I’m going to attach one of my favorite photos I snapped from our bedroom window. We were returning home from Frontline parking on Colorado Blvd., in order to watch the Tournament of Roses Parade.

Only in a MH could we have completed this particular trip.

For us, the effort is worthwhile. The question that must be answered, is if it is worth it to you.

-Matt

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

I don't think anyone said or intended to imply that owning a motorhome is like owning a car (or a boat or an airplane). I certainly didn't.

I was simply making the point that there is a rather prevalent tendency to excuse quality issues, defects and failures in motorhomes so long as the manufacturer didn't build the part, component or subsystem that fails.

Anyone is free to do that if he or she so desires. It strikes me as similar to dining in a nice restaurant, paying good money for an expensive meal, and saying it's not the restaurant's fault if the steak is tough and full of gristle.

On point. The manufacturer is free to make any specification he desires for third party components. 40+ water pumps a week should have some say in what they get.

But like most contracts it seems to be he who has the lowest price wins. It stands to reason that with the tight margins the manufacturer will get the best product if it happens to be the most economical for the price point of the coach.

Nothing wrong with the most economical but I wonder what kind of QA (quality assurance) the manufacturer does? If any? Perhaps they are like us when we go to an RV store to buy a water pump. We look at the selection and take a box we hope contains a good one.

[Diesel-Lover]

Its time for consumers to demand a centralized warranty with a duration of say 3 yrs or so where the brander stands behind the whole rig yea all the parts. Hyundai gives 5 yrs bumper to bumper on a car and 10 yrs 100K drive train as does its sister brand the Kia. Our domestic products had to step it up to compete with em and now the industry standard is about 3 36 or some such but get the drift. Manufacturers or branders as I call em are getting away with selling us dung and yes we are all aok with it for the most part and that is hurting the industry its our fault as our expectations are way way too low. Funny thing about dealers they dont prep the units till they are sold again our expectations have been hog tied till we are willing to wallow in what ever they dishout.

[gekoss]

RI Expat have you tried to join the Entega owners club?

[Z-Man2019]

RI Expat, I am looking to do the same thing regarding matching graphics on my motorcycle trailer. Please let me know if you get a response from Entegra and I will keep you posted on any progress I make as well.
Thanks!

[schad]

I did end up getting the coach. NIRVC worked really hard to get everything straightened out, and on top of that they delivered it to me and took my trade back with them.

My final conclusion is that you should look at Entegra and NIRVC as small businesses (even though they don't look like it at first glance). Yes, they will make mistakes that you won't see from companies like Toyota or Amazon. But if you post negative feedback on some forum on the Internet, Jeff Bezos sure isn't going to send you a PM with an apology. And if you find what you think is a design flaw in a Toyota, good luck getting one of their engineers to say he agrees with you and they'll see if they can fix it for the next model year.

On the whole, I'd say that both companies did a fine job of turning around the poor first experience I had.

[BSkins]

Nice result for all. Congratulations and safe travels!

[brobox]

Glad it worked out. Be thankful the dealer was NIRVC, the one down the road in Tampa would still be laughing. At NIRVC my experience has been 100% customer first. Solving the problem, delivery and pickup is a good example. Hopefully many good experiences are ahead for you with the new coach. Not many dealers monitor this forum to see what they can do better.