Entegra steering problem

[Nick Hodson]

My wife and I traded our 2012 43' tag Allegro Bus (which I loved) for a 2016 Anthem in July 2016. When I test drove the Anthem the steering felt sloppy compared to the Bus which drove like it was on rails on Tiffin's own Powerglide chassis. The Anthem is on a Spartan MountainMaster chassis. I spoke with the Dealer and also a senior guy at Spartan who called me, at the Dealer's request. He said Spartan stands behind its products and if there was any problem with the steering Spartan would fix it. So I did the trade - our fifth motorhome and third diesel pusher. We had a year of family health issues and only did two trips. We have around 8k miles on the coach.

After the second trip to Arkansas this spring the steering continued to be an issue and I went back to the Dealer. I asked to test a 2017 Anthem that they then had in stock. Wow! In five seconds I could feel the difference. I had one of the dealer techs drive both vehicles and his response was definite, there was clearly an issue with the steering on my vehicle. He suggested an alignment problem. There is no feedback from the steering wheel - zero; there is also maybe 10 - 15 degrees of play in the steering wheel. You are constantly making minor steering corrections.

Perhaps the most concerning experience is taking a bend on a downhill grade. You steer into the bend but it doesn't respond precisely so you steer a bit more into the bend and then you are oversteering so you correct and go through the same process trying to get a line you can hold on the bend. You saw your way round the bend, the road straightens out and you take a deep breath, realize you haven't been breathing, you are clenching the steering wheel; relax your shoulders and get back to wandering on a straight road. The wandering is easy enough to correct but hardly the "best handling coach on the market - period", as Entegra brands its coaches.

The 2017 Anthem I drove was like night and day. It tracked straight, no wandering, positive solid feedback from the wheel - pretty much as my 2012 Allegro Bus drove.

We took up the concerns with Entegra who asked us to bring the coach to Middlebury. I was scheduled for a hip replacement and was not likely to be driving for six or more weeks so Entegra arranged to a driver to pick it up. I was impressed and looked forward to getting the steering issue resolved. Entegra also addressed a few outstanding warranty issues.

We then had a report from our customer support rep at Entegra that they had had techs from Entegra and Spartan drive the coach. The conclusion was that there is nothing wrong with the coach, it "steers great" and "just the way it was meant to drive".

If they are saying there is nothing wrong that they will acknowledge or nothing they are prepared to do I guess I am going to have to pay for a diesel chassis facility to do an independent test for me. I am so disappointed with Entegra it's making me consider whether I should just dump the coach, eat my losses and take up cruising.

So what do I know so far; I know Entegra can build a coach that is a pleasure to drive, having driven one, the 2017 Anthem. I know our coach is a long way from being a pleasure to drive. I know that I have lost trust in Entegra/Spartan's customer support. It feels like they are circling the wagons against an unhappy customer. I considered trading it for a new Anthem but it just sticks in my craw that I should have to buy two coaches to get one that works the way they advertise. All anyone would have to do is what I did, drive our coach and drive another Anthem. If you can't tell the difference you shouldn't be in the motorhome business. In 30 years of motorhoming this is the worst experience I have had with a manufacturer.

So, in my opinion, if not Entegra's, they do have problems with their steering on some coaches, of which mine is an example. I would continue with your research by taking at least two coaches and maybe four for a test drive. You will feel if there are differences in the steering and which one you feel most comfortable driving. There's no guarantee that something that feels right at the beginning will stay that way but you have a better chance than with one that feels wrong at the outset.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by Nick Hodson

My wife and I traded our 2012 43' tag Allegro Bus (which I loved) for a 2016 Anthem in July 2016. When I test drove the Anthem the steering felt sloppy compared to the Bus which drove like it was on rails on Tiffin's own Powerglide chassis. The Anthem is on a Spartan MountainMaster chassis. I spoke with the Dealer and also a senior guy at Spartan who called me, at the Dealer's request. He said Spartan stands behind its products and if there was any problem with the steering Spartan would fix it. So I did the trade - our fifth motorhome and third diesel pusher. We had a year of family health issues and only did two trips. We have around 8k miles on the coach.

After the second trip to Arkansas this spring the steering continued to be an issue and I went back to the Dealer. I asked to test a 2017 Anthem that they then had in stock. Wow! In five seconds I could feel the difference. I had one of the dealer techs drive both vehicles and his response was definite, there was clearly an issue with the steering on my vehicle. He suggested an alignment problem. There is no feedback from the steering wheel - zero; there is also maybe 10 - 15 degrees of play in the steering wheel. You are constantly making minor steering corrections.

Perhaps the most concerning experience is taking a bend on a downhill grade. You steer into the bend but it doesn't respond precisely so you steer a bit more into the bend and then you are oversteering so you correct and go through the same process trying to get a line you can hold on the bend. You saw your way round the bend, the road straightens out and you take a deep breath, realize you haven't been breathing, you are clenching the steering wheel; relax your shoulders and get back to wandering on a straight road. The wandering is easy enough to correct but hardly the "best handling coach on the market - period", as Entegra brands its coaches.

The 2017 Anthem I drove was like night and day. It tracked straight, no wandering, positive solid feedback from the wheel - pretty much as my 2012 Allegro Bus drove.

We took up the concerns with Entegra who asked us to bring the coach to Middlebury. I was scheduled for a hip replacement and was not likely to be driving for six or more weeks so Entegra arranged to a driver to pick it up. I was impressed and looked forward to getting the steering issue resolved. Entegra also addressed a few outstanding warranty issues.

We then had a report from our customer support rep at Entegra that they had had techs from Entegra and Spartan drive the coach. The conclusion was that there is nothing wrong with the coach, it "steers great" and "just the way it was meant to drive".

If they are saying there is nothing wrong that they will acknowledge or nothing they are prepared to do I guess I am going to have to pay for a diesel chassis facility to do an independent test for me. I am so disappointed with Entegra it's making me consider whether I should just dump the coach, eat my losses and take up cruising.

So what do I know so far; I know Entegra can build a coach that is a pleasure to drive, having driven one, the 2017 Anthem. I know our coach is a long way from being a pleasure to drive. I know that I have lost trust in Entegra/Spartan's customer support. It feels like they are circling the wagons against an unhappy customer. I considered trading it for a new Anthem but it just sticks in my craw that I should have to buy two coaches to get one that works the way they advertise. All anyone would have to do is what I did, drive our coach and drive another Anthem. If you can't tell the difference you shouldn't be in the motorhome business. In 30 years of motorhoming this is the worst experience I have had with a manufacturer.

So, in my opinion, if not Entegra's, they do have problems with their steering on some coaches, of which mine is an example. I would continue with your research by taking at least two coaches and maybe four for a test drive. You will feel if there are differences in the steering and which one you feel most comfortable driving. There's no guarantee that something that feels right at the beginning will stay that way but you have a better chance than with one that feels wrong at the outset.

Nick,

From what you describe it sounds like your steering box is out of sync/phase. A good alignment shop such as a Perry Legends in Columbia MO. or others should be able to check that for you. The way it was explained to me was if your steering box is out of sync then a small turn of the wheel will give a large volume/pressure of hydraulic fluid instead of a gradually increase of volume/pressure.

Best of luck.

[Matt D]

Nick, welcome to the forum and sorry to hear of your issues. Did anyone check the ride height?

Don, Nick's profile indicates he's in Ontario as well. Do you have a recommended Heavy Vehicle alignment facility that doesn't involve a trip south of the border?

Out of sync is one possibility, as is a lack of toe. If the steer axle tires don't have a small amount of toe in, or possibly even toe out, his bus will be really squirrely.

Best Regards,

-Matt

[brobox]

Nick, Having been in your situation and fought it for 2 years with 4 front end shops, one being Spartan and one being Entegra, I know how frustrating it is. Don hit one of my major problems was the steering time was 180 degrees out, Entegra found that on the second visit.

It was Perry Legends in MO that finally got the front end aligned properly after it had been to Spartan.

Another thing that others have mentioned was no grease in the front ends, mainly dry king pins. Installing a set of Koni shocks finally took care of the last of my steering problems.

[ditto]

Have you had the ball joint recall done? One on the symtoms is lane wandering I understand.

[waterboy10]

For sure as Chuck says be confident that the front end is fully greased. It does make a difference. Did Entegra run it down some hills to see if they could duplicate your issue??

[Jerry0312]

I have also had the wandering issue on my 2014 Anthem 44b and had Spartan folks at Entegra check it out prior to PDI. The response from the spartan techs at Entegra was that it was "performing as designed". Went from there to Spartan class at Charlotte and got the same response from the spartan techs there.

Earlier this year I took mine to Perry Legends and got a good alignment. Toe-in was far out of spec, drive axle was out of square in one direction and the tag was out in the opposite direction. At this point the passenger steer tire was rounded off on the edge due to improper toe-in. That caused the coach to pull to the right on test drive with Bill Rajewski, shop owner. We returned to the shop and swapped the steer tires side for side. Then the coach pulled to the left (rounded edge tire).

Sorry for the length of this post but I suppose the bottom line is, get to a good alignment shop like Perry Legend or Josam in Florida for proper alignment. I am sure there are other capable alignment facilities, but just because the have a heavy duty alignment pit does not make them qualified.

[RogerBall]

If you have an IFS front axle that exhibits a wandering problem, then I would almost guarantee that you have a loose ball joint. Our Anthem had a wandering problem and after crawling under the front end found four loose castle nuts! Check the video in post #101 in:

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/koni...ml#post3206795

The first step in the Reyco/Granning manual when addressing a front end alignment is to check all fasteners for proper torque. I took our rig to three different alignment shops and not one of them bothered to remove the cotter pins and check the torque. No wonder the alignments did no good.

If you're going in for an alignment, insist that the shop pull all cotter pins and check nut torque IAW the Reyco/Granning manual at all ball joints.

BTW, the manual further states that if the slots in the castle nut do not align with the cotter pin hole that one should continue tightening the nut until it does. Do not back the nut off to get alignment.

Good luck.

[hogdriver]

Originally Posted by RogerBall

.....BTW, the manual further states that if the slots in the castle nut do not align with the cotter pin hole that one should continue tightening the nut until it does. Do not back the nut off to get alignment.......

Very interesting. Something to remember!

[Ann n Gene]

Call Joyce Skinner at Entegra, lay this all out to her including driving the 2017 and she will work with you and try to get your problem solved.

[757driver]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Nick, welcome to the forum and sorry to hear of your issues. Did anyone check the ride height?

Don, Nick's profile indicates he's in Ontario as well. Do you have a recommended Heavy Vehicle alignment facility that doesn't involve a trip south of the border?

Out of sync is one possibility, as is a lack of toe. If the steer axle tires don't have a small amount of toe in, or possibly even toe out, his bus will be really squirrely.

Best Regards,

-Matt

No, sorry I do not know of an Ontario shop that I can recommend, I used Perry Legends.

[Nick Hodson]

Originally Posted by 757driver

Nick,



From what you describe it sounds like your steering box is out of sync/phase. A good alignment shop such as a Perry Legends in Columbia MO. or others should be able to check that for you. The way it was explained to me was if your steering box is out of sync then a small turn of the wheel will give a large volume/pressure of hydraulic fluid instead of a gradually increase of volume/pressure.



Best of luck.

Thanks 757driver. I have heard of the Perry Legends shop you recommend. If I can't get satisfaction from Entrgra/Spartan I may head there.

[Nick Hodson]

Originally Posted by Matt D

Nick, welcome to the forum and sorry to hear of your issues. Did anyone check the ride height?



Don, Nick's profile indicates he's in Ontario as well. Do you have a recommended Heavy Vehicle alignment facility that doesn't involve a trip south of the border?



Out of sync is one possibility, as is a lack of toe. If the steer axle tires don't have a small amount of toe in, or possibly even toe out, his bus will be really squirrely.



Best Regards,



-Matt

Hi MattD. Thanks for the empathy. I escalated my conversation with Entegra and we may be beginning what I hope might turn out to be a more productive discussion. They are going to check the ride height and the alignment. I just hope, if they do, and if they find a need for an adjustment, that they will also be able to diagnose what caused the adjustments to be needed in the first place. I was also advised by the dealer that the front end took a tube and a half of grease when I asked them to do a routine lube check. I don't know what driving maybe 5k miles with little or no lubricant in the front end.

The Dealer tech who did the comparison 2016 / 2017 test drive with me also made the same point on the possible lack of toe. He said that could be why there was no feedback from the steering wheel.

[Nick Hodson]

Originally Posted by brobox

Nick, Having been in your situation and fought it for 2 years with 4 front end shops, one being Spartan and one being Entegra, I know how frustrating it is. Don hit one of my major problems was the steering time was 180 degrees out, Entegra found that on the second visit.

It was Perry Legends in MO that finally got the front end aligned properly after it had been to Spartan.

Another thing that others have mentioned was no grease in the front ends, mainly dry king pins. Installing a set of Koni shocks finally took care of the last of my steering problems.

Thanks brobox, I'm getting quite an education on IFS. Perry Legends seems aptly named! I'll check out the Koni shock. We also had the no grease front end.