Entegra vs Newmar

[wnytaxman]

Originally Posted by KarrVee

We are trying to lock in on a price on at 2019 Anthem 44B. Do you think that 35-38% off is possible on a 19 that's ordered in the next few months? We haven't hit the end of the '19 model year yet, and we thought that discounts were not so sweet at this point. Thanks!

If you are talking a clean deal I think it is possible to get over 30% and how much over will depend on the dealer and the unit. My comparison of discounts on Newmar versus Entegra is based on reading the posts on here and elsewhere. From those posts the difference between the best discounts seems to be about 10% with the Newmar discounts being lower than the Entegra discounts.

[onholdguy]

another thing that is interesting. Entegra does not offer a full wall slide as they say it weakens the structure. When you look at the entegra chassis being assembled you will see double supports on the floor,sidewalls and top where they support the ends of the slides for strength. That is one reason that you put the slides in and out while on the air bags before leveling. They are also flush slides with very little clearance because of the good fit.

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by In2flyfishin

Have any of you owned a Newmar or traveled with one? We're going to be purchasing a new coach next year and my short list is the 42-Aspire or the 43-Dutch Star. Now I know one has an upgraded interior but my main decision point is which one has a reputation for fewer reasons to have mechanical or electrical problems worked on, and overall better customer support.:
Thanks for your comments!

IMHO I would focus on what you are looking for out of the Coach - Living Wise - Value Wise - Functionality Wise.

Find the Floorplan - List he Items that are Critical to You - List the Must Haves, the Would Likes - and Would be Nice - find them in a Coach and then do the comparison with Pricing and reliability to see if it will meet your parameters.

Between your two choices - I'd guess both will meet your mechanical needs - but not sure both will meet the Livability needs that you require.

You will find there is a lot more time spent - Parked and Being Lived in than - Traveling and being Driven so make that your priority.

JMHO,

[Neon8s]

Originally Posted by Ann n Gene

No I do not think it is likely to get 38% and if 35% is approached it will be on left over 2019s after the 2020 comes out and Entegra would have to be kicking in rebates to move old stock. With that being said, there are a great number of unsold Entegras on dealer lots compared to history so it could happen at the end of the model year this year. ALL JMHO

With a little effort you can get 34% off on a 19 now, we did in last year on a 2018 Cornerstone.

[Gordon Dewald]

MSRP is a bogus number determined by a mystical group who set a number that makes it seem like there is more value in the unit than there actually is. If indeed the all in cost of the unit was anywhere near that number there would not be such big "discounts". Because the number is inflated to start with getting a discount is meaningless. It is the invoice price that counts.

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

MSRP is a bogus number determined by a mystical group who set a number that makes it seem like there is more value in the unit than there actually is. If indeed the all in cost of the unit was anywhere near that number there would not be such big "discounts". Because the number is inflated to start with getting a discount is meaningless. It is the invoice price that counts.

Agreed. Banks lend 90% of invoice. MSRP is irrelevant on new boats and RVs.

When the Foreatravel Realm was first being released, I strongly considered buying coach #3 or 4. The price quoted was 50% off MSRP, which at the time was $989k. It was tempting, but ultimately I didn't purchase. My newmars have been in the 28% range off MSRP. The first time I had a deal of invoice + $10k. The invoice doesn't include end of year incentives and other bonuses dealers get, but it is the document that banks will go by.

[buffgunner]

Originally Posted by az99

Who are all these ex Tiffin owners that went Entegra only because of insulation and where are all the posts about poor insulation?

I don't know if there are any, but I have spoken to many owners and the insulation on hung walls is better - at least on Newmar since I am familiar with it. I can be driving down the road in 100 degree weather with the gen off and just dash air is all I need. Also, I can't hear anyone talking inside a Newmar coach, but can in Tiffins and others without hung walls and great insulation. I've toured the Newmar plant and the Entegra plant. While the techniques are not all the same, I liked the way the higher end coaches were built as well as Newmar. I do like that All Newmars are built on the same line by the same people in the same way.

Higher level Entegra interiors look great and have really nice finishes. The only negative is that they don't allow ANY customization inside or out - but that only matters if want customization.

I'll get a Newmar again, but I do like Entegras diesels as long as they are the hung wall coaches.

[GeezerViz]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

Agreed. Banks lend 90% of invoice. MSRP is irrelevant on new boats and RVs.

When the Foreatravel Realm was first being released, I strongly considered buying coach #3 or 4. The price quoted was 50% off MSRP, which at the time was $989k. It was tempting, but ultimately I didn't purchase. My newmars have been in the 28% range off MSRP. The first time I had a deal of invoice + $10k. The invoice doesn't include end of year incentives and other bonuses dealers get, but it is the document that banks will go by.

Or you can do what I did, and go shopping on 12/31 to get end of year clearance. Fortunately for us, we found a unit on the lot that we really liked and got 40+% off MSRP. I have no idea what the invoice price was. I wasn't planning on buying a coach that day but couldn't pass up the deal.

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by GeezerViz

Or you can do what I did, and go shopping on 12/31 to get end of year clearance. Fortunately for us, we found a unit on the lot that we really liked and got 40+% off MSRP. I have no idea what the invoice price was. I wasn't planning on buying a coach that day but couldn't pass up the deal.

I beleive this was on an entegra right? As stated earlier, the discounts vary greatly between the 2 brands. Newmars MSRP is 30% over invoice, while entegras appears to be 40% over invoice. None of these numbers include other incentives the manufacturers provide to the dealer, sales team, advertising, etc.

[Ann n Gene]

I am pretty sure Entegra markup is quite a bit less than 40%. My guess is that it was an ordered sold unit that the buyer refused. The dealer could then offer a bigger discount because he had the original guys down payment and the dearer wanted to move the unit bad. All JMHO

[Scarab0088]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

...Newmars MSRP is 30% over invoice, while entegras appears to be 40% over ....

This is an interesting opinion.

"Invoice" infers the amount the dealership paid for the unit...right? How does the average buyer obtain the "Invoice" price?

In all our shopping for every RV we have ever purchased (from that cute little pop-top to our current Class A) that obscure number was never available for obvious reasons that the buyer would gain advantage with this knowledge.

Please expound

[redbaron73]

I have no basis for the 40% comment other than seeing what has been posted over the years for discounts people are getting. Seeing how common it is for an entegra to get 35% off, I assumed it had to be at least 38% markup for entegra.

As for Newmar, in 2013 I actually recieved the dealer invoice, and was able to read every line item with associated pricing. At that time it was a standard 30% markup. The dealer, ProSales RV in Texas, was trying to get their sales up, and offered me invoice + $10k.

This document was then used for the bank for the loan valuation, and 90% of this was financed.

What I didn't know at the time is that they were about to lose their newmar contract to NIRV.

This time around, the invoice is a closely held secret, but the numbers are the same as far as discounts. I didn't get as good of a deal buying my 2019, but I wanted specific delivery dates and build slots, so my negotiating power was limited by the supply and demand. I am paying approx $20k over invoice, which was confirmed by the bank limiting the finance amount.

Banks are fairly consistent with 90% of invoice being the max amount for the loan, If you are getting decent rates.

[redbaron73]

These numbers do not include other items available to the dealership, such as hold backs, advertising, sales incentives, performance incentives, etc.

I have no specific information if all or any of these options exist, but my theory is that newmar does provide additional year end bonuses based on sales satisfactiln performance and service performance.
Their are some dealerships that seem to work strictly in the invoice margin, and dont care about the extras. Then there are a few standout dealerships that seem to be in the relationship for the long term. It would be reasonable that they are seeing not only the obvious benefit, of long lasting customer based but are also seeing ways to give employees financial benefit based on reaching goals set by the manufacturer.

*if* the wholesale price is 40% of MSRP, but the dealer only gets the 30% discount up front, that leaves 10% on the table to be earned by performing. Every dealer can treat the 30% as the final number, even with their staff. Then based on how they manage their business, they have the potential to earn an extra 10%.

This is only theory, but one based on a lot of information from other industries that I deal with daily.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

These numbers do not include other items available to the dealership, such as hold backs, advertising, sales incentives, performance incentives, etc.

I have no specific information if all or any of these options exist, but my theory is that newmar does provide additional year end bonuses based on sales satisfactiln performance and service performance.
Their are some dealerships that seem to work strictly in the invoice margin, and dont care about the extras. Then there are a few standout dealerships that seem to be in the relationship for the long term. It would be reasonable that they are seeing not only the obvious benefit, of long lasting customer based but are also seeing ways to give employees financial benefit based on reaching goals set by the manufacturer.

*if* the wholesale price is 40% of MSRP, but the dealer only gets the 30% discount up front, that leaves 10% on the table to be earned by performing. Every dealer can treat the 30% as the final number, even with their staff. Then based on how they manage their business, they have the potential to earn an extra 10%.

This is only theory, but one based on a lot of information from other industries that I deal with daily.

These types of performance incentives are common in the auto business but I have never seen the type of customer satisfaction surveys and other types of feedback from an RV manufacturer that I see from the auto manufacturers. I doubt that RV pricing models are as incentive based as you assume and I think you are giving the RV manufacturers more credit than they deserve.

As for the topic "Entegra vs Newmar", you might as well ask chocolate vs vanilla. They both make fine products and they both put out an occasional stinker. To me it is about the design differences and which appeals more to you personally. I do think Entegra is a bit cheaper to buy, but that relatively small difference in cost means little if the Newmar product is more to your liking.