Exhaust Inspection

[Magic-carpet]

Originally Posted by brobox

Unless it's too early in the morning and I am not reading the recall correctly, it looks like Al's problem is part of this recall. I also had a 14 and never received any notification. It does say certain chassis, but if an uncertain chassis failed, I think Spartan may have a legal issue with a known defect and recall. Great find Jeanne, your talent shines again.

I think you are reading it correctly Chuck. Its a known problem. I think "when" I have to replace mine I'll go with the more "severe duty" version with the braided mesh wrap around it. At least if the inner liner breaks the mesh will hold it together and not blow hot exhaust everywhere and destroy the DEF compartment area. I'm of course assuming that if the more severe version broke the sound alone would let you know something was wrong. It looks like the insulation on that version might keep the back bath cooler also.

[Mwoodofd]

This recall bulletin is pretty clear to me, and the coaches and years that it applies to. I am curious, should we all that have a coach within these parameters get this checked, free of charge, by a Spartan Service Center?

If this recall was given in May 2016, and my coach was at Spartan in October 2017, this should have been covered and completed then, correct? I will check my documentation, but only remember a recall on something with the steering back then.

It states right there in the recall the opportunity for materials to flash and catch on fire. This covers 2582 Aspire, Anthem, and Cornerstone coaches from 2007 (not really) to 2015. That is a large number of us.

[jestal]

I forwarded a copy of the recall service bulletin to the principals at Spartan and am waiting for a reply. I asked why my coach was not included and pointed out that it has been serviced 4 times at the Spartan Factory and had the 144 point inspection 3 times well within the warranty period for the first two times. Nothing was ever mentioned about the exhaust. It has also been serviced at two different C-B facilities which are both Spartan shops and nothing was mentioned.

The replacement part Spartan supplied is not "heavy duty" in my opinion. It just has slightly shorter bellows with no damping material or stainless steel mesh armor.

Even with the exhaust broken and wide open the sound is not different, especially from the driver's seat. The break is after the turbo and the turbo will eliminate most all of the exhaust noise except at full throttle when it might be a little louder. A turbo is a very good muffler as most hotrodders know.

Depending on their reply an attorney is my next stop. I cannot believe that no one knows or knew about that bulletin. Thanks Jeanne for finding and posting that!

[BobG88]

"Failure to communicate" is evidently not a new issue for Spartan:

https://www.autosafety.org/nhtsa-fin...ice-bulletins/ [The link details a $9M fine imposed upon Spartan in 2014...]

BG

[Magic-carpet]

Originally Posted by jestal

I forwarded a copy of the recall service bulletin to the principals at Spartan and am waiting for a reply. I asked why my coach was not included and pointed out that it has been serviced 4 times at the Spartan Factory and had the 144 point inspection 3 times well within the warranty period for the first two times. Nothing was ever mentioned about the exhaust. It has also been serviced at two different C-B facilities which are both Spartan shops and nothing was mentioned.

The replacement part Spartan supplied is not "heavy duty" in my opinion. It just has slightly shorter bellows with no damping material or stainless steel mesh armor.

Even with the exhaust broken and wide open the sound is not different, especially from the driver's seat. The break is after the turbo and the turbo will eliminate most all of the exhaust noise except at full throttle when it might be a little louder. A turbo is a very good muffler as most hotrodders know.

Depending on their reply an attorney is my next stop. I cannot believe that no one knows or knew about that bulletin. Thanks Jeanne for finding and posting that!

Glad I was able to find it. Looking forward to some positive news from you regarding Spartans response. And I am really hoping that others will be able to avoid what you have experienced...

I did not realize that a turbo cuts down on the noise. So you don't know you have a problem until bells and whistles start going off on the dash.

Do you think the severe duty version of the bellows from Tru-Flex would be a better replacement?

[Magic-carpet]

Originally Posted by BobG88

"Failure to communicate" is evidently not a new issue for Spartan:

https://www.autosafety.org/nhtsa-fin...ice-bulletins/ [The link details a $9M fine imposed upon Spartan in 2014...]

BG

Very Interesting..... It doesn't look like much has changed since they got slapped with a pretty hefty penalty.

[Flanz]

Just getting up to date on all this hot air spewing from the Spartan chassis. Did a search and found a thread going back to 2016 for this problem on this forum.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/exh...ll-296195.html

Here’s the write up on RV-PRO giving the campaign number and all dates.

https://rv-pro.com/news/exhaust-tube...partan-recall/

Just in case anyone wants to get up to date further....

Sorry to hear about your troubles Al......

[jestal]

Originally Posted by Magic-carpet

Glad I was able to find it. Looking forward to some positive news from you regarding Spartans response. And I am really hoping that others will be able to avoid what you have experienced...

I did not realize that a turbo cuts down on the noise. So you don't know you have a problem until bells and whistles start going off on the dash.

Do you think the severe duty version of the bellows from Tru-Flex would be a better replacement?

I have not looked at the severe duty version but if it is wrapped in stainless "brillo pad" insulation with a braided stainless steel mesh covering then, yes! I actually had release responsibility for some bellows like this in my other life at an OEM auto company and the stainless mesh armor was a given, severe duty or not.

There is no warning until lights come on or you smell smoke. The turbo is a very effective muffler. I made a sound recording around the coach and the noise level of the exhaust and engine running at idle was the same all around the coach when you would think you would hear exhaust in the wheel well or next to the DEF bay. No warning. The bellows ahead of the turbo would definitely make a difference in noise but not after it. Don't feel bad. I was in an "argument" with a Cummins application engineer I know and his insinuation was that all the damage was my fault s I kept driving despite all the extra noise when the pipe separated! I made the recording so he could tell there is no noise difference to speak of. Certainly nothing that would jump out at you at a rest area or somewhere.

[Gasman 2]

The fact that this break is ahead of the after treatment system wouldn’t it be an EPA violation on emissions..... just a thought?

[jestal]

Originally Posted by Gasman 2

The fact that this break is ahead of the after treatment system wouldn’t it be an EPA violation on emissions..... just a thought?

Absolutely. That was my first tactic with Cummins and Spartan. Cummins is responsible for the emission certification. The failure would cause an emission failure if the EPA audited it which is how they control the standards and certification these days. I know some folks at the EPA and they are aware of the failure. Cummins passed the buck to Spartan since Spartan installs the exhaust crossover bellows. Spartan said "out of warranty"

My point to Cummins was that the failure was not out of the warranty required for certification but they claimed it was out of "their" 10 year/50K mile emission warranty. This is BS because the EPA requires audits on class 8 diesels well past that. So..the EPA may call Cummins. The only saving grace for Cummins is that the dash lit up with warnings (only reason I knew anything was wrong until the engine shut down into limp) and one of the codes was an emission warning regarding the particulate filter so technically that failure meets the letter of the law.i.e. the vehicle diagnosed the emission failure and set a check engine light and put the engine into limp mode to prevent further operation.

[jestal]

Originally Posted by jestal

I have not looked at the severe duty version but if it is wrapped in stainless "brillo pad" insulation with a braided stainless steel mesh covering then, yes! I actually had release responsibility for some bellows like this in my other life at an OEM auto company and the stainless mesh armor was a given, severe duty or not.

There is no warning until lights come on or you smell smoke. The turbo is a very effective muffler. I made a sound recording around the coach and the noise level of the exhaust and engine running at idle was the same all around the coach when you would think you would hear exhaust in the wheel well or next to the DEF bay. No warning. The bellows ahead of the turbo would definitely make a difference in noise but not after it. Don't feel bad. I was in an "argument" with a Cummins application engineer I know and his insinuation was that all the damage was my fault s I kept driving despite all the extra noise when the pipe separated! I made the recording so he could tell there is no noise difference to speak of. Certainly nothing that would jump out at you at a rest area or somewhere.

Sorry I missed it. was there a link for a severe duty part? Surprised since most of these bellows are very application specific and not off the shelf items. But spartan may have released a severe service part for other applications....not sure why they would not put it on motorhomes, though.

[Mwoodofd]

If I am reading all this correct, the only real way to inspect this piece is to remove it? Sounds like a heat shield, and the mesh covering will hide defects in the exhaust bellow, correct? If needed to be removed, should just replace if the new version is a better solution.

I read some other threads about owners that have replaced these themselves. Sounded like a challenge to reach everything, and may have required a second set of hands to help with the removal and installation.

I will check into the recall on Monday with Spartan, and see what steps are recommended by them to satisfy the inspection and replacement, if needed. Since my coach is the same year as Al's, I have to believe my parts are very similar.

[jestal]

Originally Posted by Mwoodofd

If I am reading all this correct, the only real way to inspect this piece is to remove it? Sounds like a heat shield, and the mesh covering will hide defects in the exhaust bellow, correct? If needed to be removed, should just replace if the new version is a better solution.

I read some other threads about owners that have replaced these themselves. Sounded like a challenge to reach everything, and may have required a second set of hands to help with the removal and installation.

I will check into the recall on Monday with Spartan, and see what steps are recommended by them to satisfy the inspection and replacement, if needed. Since my coach is the same year as Al's, I have to believe my parts are very similar.

The Entegra heat shield covers the bellows and must be removed to get at it. The bellows itself is just that. the convoluted bellows with no covering. A proper design would have insulation and the stainless braided armor. What you will find is a junk part in place.

I would not hesitate to replace it as preventative maintenance. Too many broken ones I have seen or heard about just since Memorial Day! Like I said earlier. It is going to break it is just a matter of when. Good piece of mind to put a new one in. If you are a good wrench I think it is doable. Due to the myriad of codes and electronic problems and the magnitude of the damage I took mine to C-B but in hind sight I would have been better off doing it myself. Lot of work though. Getting the heat shield off will reveal the real job of removing the clamp at either end and getting the bellows out and in. Use new clamps to put it back together.

[Magic-carpet]

Scroll down on this link to see the "severe duty" bellows. I'm not sure they have an off the shelf compatible part for the standard version, which seems is what we all have. But they do brag about them being better than their standard version.


https://www.tru-flex.com/bellows/