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Old 06-19-2021, 11:22 AM   #1
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Front Air bag pressure and frequent cycling of air pump

A Korean American friend of mine has been experiencing a recurring problem with air bag pressures and frequent cycling of the air pump that Spartan has been concerned about. As you will read, he has seemingly fixed his rear bag leak problem but still feels that his air pump is cycling excessively. This is not a problem I have experienced so I can't really help him, but I said I would post his question and problem to this forum and see if we might find some answers.

Here is his question to me: --------------------------

Hello, everybody;

My wife and I joined the 2020 Quartzsite Rally for the first time as a newbie. We have 2019 Aspire 40P. It's been already more than a year passed since the rally, and hoping everybody got thru the long tunnel safe and sound.

We attended Entegra Univ. last Sept. and learned quite a bit, but more I know, more headaches. Here, I would like to bring up one of my confusing experiences, and expecting get some good advices or guidance if you have and would share.

During the seminar, Matt from Spartan mentioned about the pressure gauge moving up and down, there is some air leaking issue involved.
On the way home (Los Angeles), I noticed my front gauge moving average 15 minutes cycle with no braking use, and Spartan suggested to stop by Service Center asap, worrying about the air compressor overworking the air dryer.

We were around Dallas area and Spartan recommended one Service Center at FT. Worth TX, Industrial Power. After 10 days, the IP said that they fixed some leaking at fire wall which is Entegra Issue, and we headed back to home, but same symptoms happened again and rear dropped quite a bit after overnight parking as well (we had 2nd year annual Service at Spartan, and also changed two rear air bags), and the time got much shortened to 6 - 7 minutes. On the way home, Spartan asked me to test this and that, but saying it was normal.

After we got home, at local SC, they changed airbags again and fixed more leaks, and I don't see any rear drop even after a week parked, which was good but front gauge still drops with no inputs/braking while driving, but no leaks at all when sitting. The psi reading after pump, both goes up to 130 and down to 127 for rear (stays there), and the front, down to 119 or 120 after purge but drops continue to 105 before pumping back up. The timewise it takes about 6 - 7 minutes per cycle, much shorter than before.

I'm asking Spartan to look into this issue, but they are still saying it is normal(?). Hope to hear from you, who experienced such a case or know what to do. I'm going back to SC to check it out again.

Thanks with regards, Kiwan.
------------------------------------

I will relay suggestions and thoughts to my friend. Anyone have any ideas?

Gary
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Old 06-19-2021, 11:47 AM   #2
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Gary, I will share my personal experiences. On my 14 fighting air leaks since it was delivered. After being sent back to Spartan for what was being said as normal, they found pin holes in my airlines in the frame that happened during welding of the cross braces to the frame. No matter what was changed, the air leaks continued until the air lines were replaced. My fluctuation in air pressure was while idling as well as traveling


On the Travel Supreme from the engine air compressor being over worked, the compressor blew 2 weeks out of warranted. Out of pocket repair $5,000. After learning that lessen the hard way, I have great respect regarding air leaks and would not take "it's normal" from Spartan on the 14. 3 psi an hour they say is normal when parked.
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
A Korean American friend of mine has been experiencing a recurring problem with air bag pressures and frequent cycling of the air pump that Spartan has been concerned about. As you will read, he has seemingly fixed his rear bag leak problem but still feels that his air pump is cycling excessively. This is not a problem I have experienced so I can't really help him, but I said I would post his question and problem to this forum and see if we might find some answers.

Here is his question to me: --------------------------

Hello, everybody;

My wife and I joined the 2020 Quartzsite Rally for the first time as a newbie. We have 2019 Aspire 40P. It's been already more than a year passed since the rally, and hoping everybody got thru the long tunnel safe and sound.

We attended Entegra Univ. last Sept. and learned quite a bit, but more I know, more headaches. Here, I would like to bring up one of my confusing experiences, and expecting get some good advices or guidance if you have and would share.

During the seminar, Matt from Spartan mentioned about the pressure gauge moving up and down, there is some air leaking issue involved.
On the way home (Los Angeles), I noticed my front gauge moving average 15 minutes cycle with no braking use, and Spartan suggested to stop by Service Center asap, worrying about the air compressor overworking the air dryer.

We were around Dallas area and Spartan recommended one Service Center at FT. Worth TX, Industrial Power. After 10 days, the IP said that they fixed some leaking at fire wall which is Entegra Issue, and we headed back to home, but same symptoms happened again and rear dropped quite a bit after overnight parking as well (we had 2nd year annual Service at Spartan, and also changed two rear air bags), and the time got much shortened to 6 - 7 minutes. On the way home, Spartan asked me to test this and that, but saying it was normal.

After we got home, at local SC, they changed airbags again and fixed more leaks, and I don't see any rear drop even after a week parked, which was good but front gauge still drops with no inputs/braking while driving, but no leaks at all when sitting. The psi reading after pump, both goes up to 130 and down to 127 for rear (stays there), and the front, down to 119 or 120 after purge but drops continue to 105 before pumping back up. The timewise it takes about 6 - 7 minutes per cycle, much shorter than before.

I'm asking Spartan to look into this issue, but they are still saying it is normal(?). Hope to hear from you, who experienced such a case or know what to do. I'm going back to SC to check it out again.

Thanks with regards, Kiwan.
------------------------------------

I will relay suggestions and thoughts to my friend. Anyone have any ideas?

Gary
I keep a pretty close watch on mine and on a “good” road, with no brake usage, my pump cycles every 2 hours plus or minus a few minutes. 6-8 minutes cycle time is ridiculous.
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Old 06-19-2021, 03:40 PM   #4
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Front Air bag pressure and frequent cycling of air pump

When we purchased our previous coach (new 2016 Anthem) we immediately had a problem with one of the air gauges cycling down and then getting pumped back up. Similar to Gary’s friend.
On our coach the entry door is sealed via and air lock once the emergency brake is released. The same goes for the pocket door to the bedroom and maybe (not sure) the pocket door to the bathroom. According to the technician who did the repair, we had an extra airline that was not attached to anything. This could have been the bathroom pocket door. So the air would escape, dropping the tank pressure. The compressor would refill the tank, and the process repeated. Once the line was crimped closed, the problem went away. We discovered this soon after leaving the dealership where we bought the coach. This was our experience with leaking air lines
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Old 06-20-2021, 10:02 PM   #5
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Cool Watched the air cycling all day

We are in a new 2022 Aspire - today I monitored the pressure - the rear held 139 like a champ, almost never needing to pump up. The front though seems not quite sealed - when it hits 111 it airs up to 139, almost immediately drops to 129/130, then goes back to 111 over about 15 minutes of time.

Sounds like it could need looking into? We will be passing through the Entegra factory area in a couple of days on the way. Do they receive drop-in new customers to say hello and pick their brains about possible issues?
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Old 06-21-2021, 06:32 PM   #6
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I'll chime in...

Not a fan of any air system that looses air by itself. Although I have one that looses from the front left bag when parked over a couple of days. Your air system should hold air unless you depress the brakes or the suspension adjust.

Yes there is a set time that it has to hold air for to pass inspection, but reality is that it should not leak.

Start with airing it up and then shut down and listen, and look. Then take a spay bottle with soap and water and start hitting the bags and any connections you can find. Chances are its a valve or connection, for that quick of cycles you should be able to hear it or see it - if its pin holes in the lines my bet would be several in one area.

JP
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Old 06-22-2021, 05:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwprosser View Post
I'll chime in...

Not a fan of any air system that looses air by itself. Although I have one that looses from the front left bag when parked over a couple of days. Your air system should hold air unless you depress the brakes or the suspension adjust.

Yes there is a set time that it has to hold air for to pass inspection, but reality is that it should not leak.

Start with airing it up and then shut down and listen, and look. Then take a spay bottle with soap and water and start hitting the bags and any connections you can find. Chances are its a valve or connection, for that quick of cycles you should be able to hear it or see it - if its pin holes in the lines my bet would be several in one area.

JP
Mine were difficult to locate as the main airlines are in the frame which is covered with ABS plastic It took a trip back to Spartan before that location was even attempted to find the leak.
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Old 06-22-2021, 07:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherG View Post
We are in a new 2022 Aspire - today I monitored the pressure - the rear held 139 like a champ, almost never needing to pump up. The front though seems not quite sealed - when it hits 111 it airs up to 139, almost immediately drops to 129/130, then goes back to 111 over about 15 minutes of time.

Sounds like it could need looking into? We will be passing through the Entegra factory area in a couple of days on the way. Do they receive drop-in new customers to say hello and pick their brains about possible issues?
Entegra does not take walk-ins. I think they may have started factory tours again but you would probably need to schedule that also. If you do get in for a tour and you are lucky enough to get either Ted Cook, PJ or Don as a guide you could probably get some good tips on what components on the house side use air and where it might be leaking.
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Old 06-23-2021, 08:12 AM   #9
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Jeanne

One should not need to have a person that has worked for Jayco and Entegra for 15 years to answer that question. Any competent customer service rep that answers the phone at the CS number should have that data sitting right in front of them in those thousands of real and digital pages of design specs sitting right in front of them. This should not be a mystery.

Gary
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Old 06-23-2021, 08:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox View Post
Mine were difficult to locate as the main airlines are in the frame which is covered with ABS plastic It took a trip back to Spartan before that location was even attempted to find the leak.
Chuck,
Your absolutely on the money. My comment was directed at the first steps and the easiest part of diagnoses for a DIY. Look for the simple before having to go deep. When I typed that out I actually remembered your air leak in the frame rails. The part of yours that still blows my mind is that in manufacturing, I'm not sure who thought it would be a good idea to weld x-braces after air and fuel lines have been run in the frame. I would think that is a process that should happen well before air and fuel line are run....

JP
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Old 06-23-2021, 10:07 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristopherG View Post
We are in a new 2022 Aspire - today I monitored the pressure - the rear held 139 like a champ, almost never needing to pump up. The front though seems not quite sealed - when it hits 111 it airs up to 139, almost immediately drops to 129/130, then goes back to 111 over about 15 minutes of time.

Sounds like it could need looking into? We will be passing through the Entegra factory area in a couple of days on the way. Do they receive drop-in new customers to say hello and pick their brains about possible issues?
When driving ALL air bags are being fed air from the front system/gauge. Would think this would be fairly normal.

To see if you might have a suspension leak park the motorhome with the suspension at ride height and see how fast the front gauge goes down.
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