Community Forums

2cyber71 · 03-28-2023, 05:08 AM

Holy cow, I was thinking about retroband. I’m going to rethink.
The dash cam video is why $100 dash cam can help in many ways.
I have one in the motorhome, one in the jeep dash, one in the Jeep rear window.

Cruzer · 03-28-2023, 06:24 AM

Sounds like a simple installation issue. The steel banding in version 2.0 prevents the band itself from stretching and failing. My guess is that the mechanism was overtorqued (air ratchet maybe?) and the rod was stretched, allowing it to eventually fail. Has to be a rare occurrence and with proper training it shouldn't happen again.

I've been through that shaking with version 1.0 and it wasn't that hard to keep control and slow the coach down. I would gladly gamble on the remote odds of a Rettroband ratchet failing and causing a shake than gamble on traveling without Rettrobands and experience a blowout at highway speeds. The stakes are too high and the odds not favorable on that gamble.

brobox · 03-28-2023, 06:58 AM

Mark,I totally agree with you. The rare situation photos with Rettrobands sure beats the 1000's of photos posted of tire blowouts without Retrobands. I would much rather have a remount timeout than six month in a body shop waiting for repairs and parts. Or worse yet, waiting for the insurance claim to replace the coach and all items lost. Some not replaceable. I'll stick with the Rettroband option.

shepardmike · 03-28-2023, 07:15 AM

Dash cams are a must! Rob was going 64 (my favorite speed), can you imagine this at 70-75??

voltdoc · 03-28-2023, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruzer

Sounds like a simple installation issue. The steel banding in version 2.0 prevents the band itself from stretching and failing. My guess is that the mechanism was overtorqued (air ratchet maybe?) and the rod was stretched, allowing it to eventually fail. Has to be a rare occurrence and with proper training it shouldn't happen again.

I've been through that shaking with version 1.0 and it wasn't that hard to keep control and slow the coach down. I would gladly gamble on the remote odds of a Rettroband ratchet failing and causing a shake than gamble on traveling without Rettrobands and experience a blowout at highway speeds. The stakes are too high and the odds not favorable on that gamble.

Brett explained that if the tightening of the two gearboxes isn't done a little at a time, alternately on each side, the rod can bend and be weakened.

I agree that it wasn't that hard to control, there was no pulling to one side or the other. I think the Webcam was bouncing a little on its mount too, accentuating the motion somewhat. Still, it was a bit disconcerting when it let go and feeling the wheel oscillating was a bit scary, but now that I know what it was, it's clear there was no real danger of losing control. As soon as I got down to about 30mph it leveled out.

Also totally agree I would rather have the Rettrobands peace of mind and protection from a blowout, which could be totally catastrophic compared to a little shaking. I'm sure my case is just a freak occurrence.

And I agree Chuck, if I had been more aware, all I would have needed is a mobile tire person. I watched the tech unmount the tire with just hand tools, came off pretty easy. Of course he had a big ass pneumatic air gun to get the lugs off and on.

Cruzer · 03-28-2023, 08:33 AM

Yep, when mine let go I found ever spec of dust that was in the coach. It rained dust pretty good for a while

I carry tire tools so I got off the Tri-State tollway at an Oasis that was close for construction work and knocked down the tire and removed the pieces of Rettroband right there and was on my way. A bead breaking hammer, tire bars, some tire lube and a torque multiplier did the trick. Didn't want to spend any more time in Chicago than I had to.

voltdoc · 03-28-2023, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cruzer

Yep, when mine let go I found ever spec of dust that was in the coach. It rained dust pretty good for a while

I carry tire tools so I got off the Tri-State tollway at an Oasis that was close for construction work and knocked down the tire and removed the pieces of Rettroband right there and was on my way. A bead breaking hammer, tire bars, some tire lube and a torque multiplier did the trick. Didn't want to spend any more time in Chicago than I had to.

Uh oh! I feel like my coach is going to get a little heavier pretty soon!

JR, my tire tech, uses Dawn liquid soap as a removal lube and some slippery grease like stuff he calls "snot" as a remount lube. I was impressed how fast he got that tire on and off.

Gary.Jones · 03-28-2023, 09:39 AM

What was also obvious was how terrible the roadway was before it let go... I'm in Arizona now and Arizona must have been spending its road maintenance money on COVID immunizations, because Arizona's roads (Interstates specifically) are in terrible shape .... mile after mile after mile of (-10, I-8, and I-20 in Texas) are incredibly rough interstates. I-10 is a disaster. I-10 is the worst. Arizona's own roads are in much better shape.

It looks like months ago, they milled off 80% of the blacktop (or 80% of the blacktop over concrete has worn off completely), but 20% remains and you are just driving from one uneven place to another and at 64n or 68 (common speeds) we are just pounding the wheels and tires. Inside the coach it is a terrible racket from those big, very loaded 365 or 315 front tires/wheels hitting those crappy, poorly maintained roads.

Regardless, your wheels were taking a beating in that lane immediately before the bolt failed in the video and I'd bet the pounding that the wheels were taking traveling over that rough road were the immediate cause of that failure of the weakened bolt.

Nice job of bringing the coach to the breakdown lane Rob. Another reason both hands need to be on the steering wheel at all times.

Gary

Gary.Jones · 03-28-2023, 10:05 AM

And Rob, I'd love to know what the "snot" really is. If you can find out from your guy, please write about it here on the forum and it will go intop"The Files"..

Gary

Turbojack · 03-28-2023, 11:23 AM

Just thinking (I know, it dangerous)

I wonder if the tire has been damaged by the excess vibration? The way the coach was jumping, is the tire taking a heavy load and then load released? I know the shocks got a workout. You might check your front shock mounts to make sure they didn't get damaged.

voltdoc · 03-29-2023, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbojack

Just thinking (I know, it dangerous)

I wonder if the tire has been damaged by the excess vibration? The way the coach was jumping, is the tire taking a heavy load and then load released? I know the shocks got a workout. You might check your front shock mounts to make sure they didn't get damaged.

For sure that was a concern, but the extreme vibration was only for a few seconds, but then yes we did drive 12 miles at 25mph. Maybe the bigger concern was if the loose Rettroband was flopping around enough to cut up the inside of the tire. We inspected that when we pulled the Rettroband out and there didn't appear to be any damage. I wouldn't have driven the 200 miles to NIRVC on it if there had been. In any case the tires have been replaced.

Good idea to check the shock mounts, thanks!

voltdoc · 03-29-2023, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

And Rob, I'd love to know what the "snot" really is. If you can find out from your guy, please write about it here on the forum and it will go intop"The Files"..

Gary

Gary, I will ask. Here is something google came up with: https://www.a1tireinc.com/product-pa...gh-performance

Some interesting info here:
https://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=358369
According to the above it sounds like regular dish soap is not a good choice.

Jose67 · 03-29-2023, 06:39 AM

Just stating the obvious:

$5,000.00 for a "safety device" that has had many challenges and now adds another level of complexity to our travels. Another failure point in the chain.

Not sure about this.

mgoldstone · 03-29-2023, 07:10 AM

The broken gearbox showed what appeared to be a broken or detached bolt. I woudl be most interested in knowing what failure analysis of the metal parts revealed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by voltdoc

There was nothing wrong with the Rettroband material itself. One of the two threaded rods that holds the two halves of the Rettroband together, sheared at the gearbox. As explained to me, a rare occurrence caused most likely by an uncommon installation error.

While we wouldn't want to go thru this again, the experience has ultimately resulted in a number of positive outcomes, not the least of which is how solidly NIRVC stands behind their products and goes way above and beyond in support of their customers.

As a side note, Cruzers test of the tire returning itself to the same position, didn't really behave that way in this case. In fact, oddly, there was noticably more resistance than normal getting the tire to spin. That's probably because the Rettroband wasn't broken with loose pieces inside the tire. One gearbox was still intact, so the Rettroband was still wrapped around the inside of the rim, just loosely, and closer to the center of rotation. However, as I forced the tire to rotate, at some point there was a definite clunk and I could feel the weight shifting inside, perhaps the Rettroband slipping around the rim trying to find its own center of gravity. Once the loose Rettroband was removed and the tire remounted, it spun freely as one would expect.

One other note, the gearbox that wasn't sheared, was apparently internally damaged as we couldn't get it to loosen.

My dashcam captured the event. After that, driving more than about 25 mph was extremely uncomfortable.

We are at NIRVC Nashville now awaiting repairs tomorrow.