Gen 7 failure rates? Any data?

[Rev. Roy]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

The reason why Newmar went Spartan only is a mystery to many.

Theories are Spartan needed Newmar to survive, Newmar received a bonus kickback on chassis, or that it wS a brilliant strategic move to keep competition alive, and freightliner in balance.

I don't buy any of those theories. I think it's due to the perception that Spartan greatly exceeds freightliner in quality.

The customer base for luxury Newmar has solidly consumed the Spartan KoolAid, and Newmar wad able to make production less complicated by standardizing.

That's my theory.

I honestly think it was because Spartan was the leader in developing new technology. Things like independent front wheel suspension on Diesel pushers were developed by them. If they hadn't, I seriously believe we'd still have the same old suspension we had back in the 80s. It took Freightliner a year or two to catch up with Spartan's innovations. I am fairly certain the steerable tag was developed by them as well. Entegra has always been built on Spartans and high end RV builder Foretravel has built on Spartans ever since they quit building their own. It is highly likely that Newmar chose Spartan because Spartan seems interested in improving their chassis. I know that would be what I would look for.

[brobox]

[QUOTE=dave&ginny;6079694]

Originally Posted by brobox

Chuck, I agree but I'm afraid nothing out there really excites me other than the coaches built on the Spartan Chassis. I've tried to look at the American Coach but they just don't do anything for me. The front cap looks cheap, I don't care for the wall structure, and the interior looks sterile. I sure would like to see another chassis builder enter the market or "Freight shaker" gets more included in the Newmar and Entegra line.

Dave, that statement was made in part that this Cornerstone will probably be my last full size coach. When I do step down, Spartan will not be my first choice. My 14, I spent 2 years fighting Spartan problems from steering, to 3 rear ends to a faulty radiator and many thing in between, like all of the hubs seals, some more than once. The 19, I had only a short time, where the DEF head went out in 1,800 miles, then hub seals leaking fouling hours that I spent polishing wheels. The new 21 has already lost the DEF head and now an axle seal leaking. After 3 tries, I don't think I will do #4 with Spartan when the down size happens. I still can't understand after 8 years, that Spartan has not learned how to install a simple hub seal properly. If saving a dime using paper gaskets instead of the proper sealant is what they want for the end users.... some thing is wrong with the new Spartan vs the old that was under the Travel Supreme.

[dave&ginny]

Chuck,

I understand and I’m sorry you’ve had all the problems that you’ve had. As a business owner myself, I believe fair competition keeps growth in the right direction. The RV industry seems to lack the needed competition. There’s only 2 frame builders and one major engine supplier. Options are very limited and therefore manufacturers just play follow the leader. The only thing new is more glitz and glitter.

Because of this I really don’t see the upside to upgrade as much as I want to. If I bought a new Anthem or Aspire, it would have the same frame and power plant as what I already have, no improvement in construction. Just more electronics and it’s the electronics that seem to be troublesome in the newer coaches. I just turned down a very good offer on my coach a few days ago but if I traded up there wouldn’t be much of a gain, just more potential for problems.

I’m going to start slowing down in the buisness next year and retire in 2 years. We’ll decide at that time what coach we’ll have. I really would like to stay with Entegra but we’ll see what happens, I’m also looking at bus conversions but most of them look like they should come with stripper poles.

[Gary.Jones]

Dave

Stripper Poles !!!! Now that is a concept yet to be explored (but I know what you mean.... gone seem tom be the days of fine wood and fine furniture.... if it ain't gray, it ain't worth havin' ). But in a never ending quest for more glitz, that can't be far behind.

Gary

[hdgoldie]

We cancelled our plans to change coaches this year and I’m waiting to see what the ‘23’s might bring. Unlike Gary I like the interiors of the new American coaches. And I like the idea of tile flat floors. I love Entegra and never thought I would even consider moving to a different brand but, after having a flat floor without carpet, I’ll never buy a coach with carpeting again.

[tnrzryd]

Originally Posted by gswindle

I guess I have only met the 1's because every person I know with a Tiffin, Newmar or Entegra with a 2018 or newer have had at least one failure and most with 2.

Gary S.

Gary - just curious what’s so important about “2018 or newer”? Did earlier coaches not have as many issues? One last thing, how do you tell which gen version you have.

[dave&ginny]

Originally Posted by tnrzryd

Gary - just curious what’s so important about “2018 or newer”? Did earlier coaches not have as many issues? One last thing, how do you tell which gen version you have.

The big Change in the DEF heads was 2015. That means you could have a 2016 but still have the previous version. The previous def heads didn’t measure the quality as much (this is my understanding).

[gswindle]

Originally Posted by tnrzryd

Gary - just curious what’s so important about “2018 or newer”? Did earlier coaches not have as many issues? One last thing, how do you tell which gen version you have.

I guess it is because I only currently know 1 person with a coach newer then 2018. I owned a 2016 Tiffin with 43,000 miles no issues.

2019 Entegra Anthem. ( 2 Def Sensors at 57,000). I just hope the one that was replaced in January 2022 was a 7. Spartan said it was. I guess the only way to tell is call Spartan.


Gary S.

[LWBAZ]

Originally Posted by dave&ginny

The RV industry seems to lack the needed competition. There’s only 2 frame builders and one major engine supplier.

Actually, there are three chassis builders in the Class A diesel segment - Freightliner, Spartan and Tiffin with their PowerGlide chassis. You do have to buy a Tiffin motorhome to get a PowerGlide chassis. If you want a Spartan chassis, your brand choice isn't a whole lot broader - basically Jayco/Entegra or Newmar. Foretravel builds on Spartan as well, but their volume is very low in comparison to Jayco/Entegra and Newmar.

You're right that all of the Class A diesels have a Cummins engine. In the Super C world, Detroit Diesel competes effectively with Cummins, but DD isn't active in Class A's.

[LWBAZ]

Originally Posted by dave&ginny

The big Change in the DEF heads was 2015. That means you could have a 2016 but still have the previous version. The previous def heads didn’t measure the quality as much (this is my understanding).

Yep, actually not at all.

[brobox]

The Federal requirement for the DEF sensors to measure concentration, etc went into effect in 2016. Many of the 2016 were built on 15 chassis before the requirement and a few of the 17 escaped with earlier chassis as well. Easy way to tell at a glance is at the DEF head plug. The newer units will have square plug for the DEF head the older units have an inline plug.

[mgoldstone]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

I'm wondering. Has anyone found a source of of accurate data on what the world is finding on failure rate on Gen-7 DEF heads?

I have heard that there are now two different companies who are manufacturing the Gen 7 DEF heads for Spartan but other than Fla-based Shaw Industries, I have never heard who the second company is.

More importantly for all of us is real data on the failure rates of the Gen 7 DEF heads? Anyone know anyone who has access to real data? Is the crisis over, reduced, eliminated? Inquiring minds want (NEED) to know!

GARY

Not familiar with Spartan chassis. My coach is built on a Freightliner XCS chassis, and I carry a "DEF Simulator" which can be plugged in in place of the DEF Head if it should fail and force limp home mode. This restores full functionality until the DEF system can be serviced. Try a GOOGLE search to learn more about the DEF Simulators!

[plumber64]

The same crap goes on in the Plumbing&Heating business. You won't get a straight answer from some company flunkie, no matter how high up they are. Liar, Liar pants on fire" Just like grade school.

[bkhitech]

Hi All
Coming from the heavy equipment world We probably see 80% failure rate on DEF heads. 1 in a 100, comical!
Since equipment was shut down people are resorting to simulators as DEF heads were in National backorder. Cummins also has a temporary calibration they can install for a lot of the engines on the road. Hi