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Old 03-27-2014, 04:28 AM   #15
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Nice

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First off I don't won't to pile on and complain about why my $350k MH isn't perfect.
First off Dave and Debbie, gorgeous coach.

Secondly- I guess I'm confused why you would not expect perfection at that price. $350k and the Fridge needs replacing? That's sad.

Hope it all works out and you get to enjoy your new purchase.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:13 AM   #16
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First off Dave and Debbie, gorgeous coach.

Secondly- I guess I'm confused why you would not expect perfection at that price. $350k and the Fridge needs replacing?
Because perfection is unnatainable. Look at all the auto recalls by Toyota GM and Ford and these are mass-produced, not hand built like a motorhome.

High price does not guarantee perfection. Even the billion dollar space shuttle launches have had failures, so why would you expect perfection in a motorhome?
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:15 AM   #17
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Because perfection is unnatainable. Look at all the auto recalls by Toyota GM and Ford and these are mass-produced, not hand built like a motorhome. High price does not guarantee perfection. Even the billion dollar space shuttle launches have had failures, so why would you expect perfection in a motorhome?
Well said
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:29 AM   #18
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Part of the problem is that the RV I like has a residential frig. If the Entegra had a Dometic or Norcold (which I had and don't want), the RV repair guys would work on it. Entegra makes RVs, not fridges. They buy them. Since this is a very large component made for houses they have to follow the manufacturer's guidelines for warranty repair to maintain said warranty. If you were the guy on the assembly line and installed the fridge and all the lights worked, the fan ran and the compressor hummed would you think the unit would not work? This is a 1 in a 100 failure. Unfortunately it happened inside my RV. The problem I'm running into is unless it is a simple board to replace and involves major surgery it must be done outside of any vehicle. It's like having a dead elephant in your living room. Entegra is doing all it can. This same scenario would happen on any RV regardless of cost. If it happened on a Newell or Prevost it would just be more expensive to swapout.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:33 AM   #19
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RVOne. I think the management is truly trying to improve. They always talk about how well things work at Albany....do they?...They have a new manager (the old one was fine), they have a new service manager, they have hired new cleaning and prep people. Their new manager said all of the employees have a great attitude they just need coaching, and attitude cannot be taught. I cannot say their location has changed or improved access. The employees at RVOne said they were astonished at the Tampa RV show and the opening of their Tampa store the anomosity that North Trail salesman expressed for the Entegra brand

Dave, I know that RVOne is building a brand new facility in Albany as their old one was kind of shoe horned in the city. They do seem to be striving to improve which they have done here in Buffalo. I know they have been actively looking for a better location in Orlando, but haven't found it yet.

At the Tampa show the North Trail sales people were vicious in their comments about Entegra. When we were looking at the Newmars one of their sales people wandered over and started a conversation and asked me if we were looking at any other motorhomes. I told him that we were also looking at the Entegras. He started in with bad mouthing the constructions techniques and materials and just about anything and everything you could think of. I asked him if he had ever been to the Entegra factory, which, of course, he had not been. I told him that I had been there twice and what he was saying was total BS. He walked away, but he made sure I got his card. As a follow up to our Comfort Drive test drive I got an e-mail from the sales manager at North Trail. I relayed my experiences to him and he replied that the sales people had been given an "attitude adjustment" and that it would not happen again. We'll see.

For us the choices are going to be between Entegra and Newmar. I must admit that the current spate of Entegra issues has me more than a little bit concerned about Entegra quality going forward.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:48 AM   #20
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Part of the problem is that the RV I like has a residential frig. If the Entegra had a Dometic or Norcold (which I had and don't want), the RV repair guys would work on it. Entegra makes RVs, not fridges. They buy them. Since this is a very large component made for houses they have to follow the manufacturer's guidelines for warranty repair to maintain said warranty. If you were the guy on the assembly line and installed the fridge and all the lights worked, the fan ran and the compressor hummed would you think the unit would not work? This is a 1 in a 100 failure. Unfortunately it happened inside my RV. The problem I'm running into is unless it is a simple board to replace and involves major surgery it must be done outside of any vehicle. It's like having a dead elephant in your living room. Entegra is doing all it can. This same scenario would happen on any RV regardless of cost. If it happened on a Newell or Prevost it would just be more expensive to swapout.
Obviously it is your coach and your call but I respectfully disagree with the logic. Regardless of which/whose fridge it is, on a brand new coach Entegra should tell the dealer to just get a new Samsung from Lowes, etc. and put it in your coach. Dealer would then send defective fridge back to Entegra to deal with it.... or whatever. Unless, of course, your's could be repaired more quickly than a simple swap.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:11 AM   #21
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Obviously it is your coach and your call but I respectfully disagree with the logic. Regardless of which/whose fridge it is, on a brand new coach Entegra should tell the dealer to just get a new Samsung from Lowes, etc. and put it in your coach. Dealer would then send defective fridge back to Entegra to deal with it.... or whatever. Unless, of course, your's could be repaired more quickly than a simple swap.
Because Lowes doesn't stock hardly any refrigerators. They order them in which will take almost the same amount of time, that is if it needs to be replaced.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:19 AM   #22
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From the picture you posted it looks like a beauty. Enjoy and Happy RV'ing.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:51 AM   #23
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Congratulations on Entegra, Part Deux!!
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:37 AM   #24
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Dave, I know that RVOne is building a brand new facility in Albany as their old one was kind of shoe horned in the city. They do seem to be striving to improve which they have done here in Buffalo. I know they have been actively looking for a better location in Orlando, but haven't found it yet.

At the Tampa show the North Trail sales people were vicious in their comments about Entegra. When we were looking at the Newmars one of their sales people wandered over and started a conversation and asked me if we were looking at any other motorhomes. I told him that we were also looking at the Entegras. He started in with bad mouthing the constructions techniques and materials and just about anything and everything you could think of. I asked him if he had ever been to the Entegra factory, which, of course, he had not been. I told him that I had been there twice and what he was saying was total BS. He walked away, but he made sure I got his card. As a follow up to our Comfort Drive test drive I got an e-mail from the sales manager at North Trail. I relayed my experiences to him and he replied that the sales people had been given an "attitude adjustment" and that it would not happen again. We'll see.

For us the choices are going to be between Entegra and Newmar. I must admit that the current spate of Entegra issues has me more than a little bit concerned about Entegra quality going forward.
Have you been over to the Newmar forum and read about all their issues? Not sure why there is the idea that if you spend x amount on a coach is should be perfect. There is no such thing as perfect. Brand new homes are not perfect yet we put a home on a chassis and drive it down the road and dont expect problems? Part of owning a coach is working on it or paying someone else to work on it. I would say Entegra and Newmar have the fewest issues out there but they all have problems. I firmly believe expectations are just too high.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:15 AM   #25
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Have you been over to the Newmar forum and read about all their issues? Not sure why there is the idea that if you spend x amount on a coach is should be perfect. There is no such thing as perfect. Brand new homes are not perfect yet we put a home on a chassis and drive it down the road and dont expect problems? Part of owning a coach is working on it or paying someone else to work on it. I would say Entegra and Newmar have the fewest issues out there but they all have problems. I firmly believe expectations are just too high.
If the manufacturer makes a good faith effort to check the operation of all systems and paint/materials quality, then yes one must expect that there will be things that crop up -- and that's OK.

--- BUT what we're seeing is negligence in failing to catch obvious defects and allowing the coach to ship. The business plan seems to be ship as many as possible and fix them later. This is unsustainable and will likely result in lost business and profits. Chuck's coach is a perfect example of a total failure to execute not once but twice.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:32 AM   #26
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Samsung Fridge

I was once the Chief Marketing Officer for a domestic/international appliance manufacturer and thus have been in a number of fridge factories and know how they are manufactured. Samsung and LG are not great "makers" of appliances. However, the Samsung in my Anthem is fine (knock on wood).

With some knowledge of refrigerators, I would strongly suggest you look at a repair done in the coach. It is likely one of a few things that could be quickly fixed without "rebuilding the coach". There is not much that can go wrong with 80% (the "chassis") of the refrigerator - its metal outside, plastic inside and filled with foam. Your problem is likely the motor or the refrigeration unit that can be replaced relatively easily. If I were in your position, that is what I would do first.

For what it's worth ...
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Old 03-27-2014, 11:09 AM   #27
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I firmly believe expectations are just too high.
I respectfully disagree. The American automotive industry didn't reduce defects until change was forced upon them by the Japanese manufacturers. Of course, they still aren't perfect, but the entire manufacturing performance improved.

I agree that these coaches are complex and the process is difficult. But we, the buyers, have an obligation to help the RVIA improve their performance. We do that by raising expectations, standing on principle, and rejecting substandard workmanship.

I'm very concerned with three things:
1. Manufacturing that depends on post production repair to get it right as the 'industry standard'
2. Inadequate acceptance inspection by receiving dealers.
3. Passing known defects on to a buyer without full disclosure as a 'standard business practice.'

Ok, "Buyer Beware" might be our watchword, but we purchasers are not experts. We have to depend on the veracity and reputation of manufacturers, dealers, and service techs. This makes us vulnerable...hence the discomfort in the process.

That one manufacturer who can devise and successfully incorporate superior quality control processes, producing coaches with markedly reduced punch lists, will gain an advantage in this market if those processes are cost effective. Reducing manufacturer costs of dealer rework/repair should pay for the enhanced quality processes.

Dealers who incorporate effective acceptance inspection processes and incorporate full disclosure in this industry will establish trust and veracity with their clients. We are the clients, and if a dealer abridges fair treatment, then we need to hold them accountable. If the dealer, who should be our expert on the ground, does not complete their due diligence when that coach arrives from the factory, then they can't tell you if you have a great product or a pig in a poke. We need dealers to be our experts...we depend on them.

These are just my reflections on the discussions, complaints, and issues that have been shared over the last four or five weeks on the Entegra boards in iRV2. To me, it is clear that it's time for change in industry-wide standard business practices. I do believe that these are endemic issues, affecting every manufacturer and dealer, nationwide, not just Entegra Coach.

I also have, with the purchase of my coach, placed my bet that the Bontragers, Jayco, and Entegra Coach, are my choice of manufacturer to lead the pack, and make good on their promise. Their Customer Service is outstanding, and they own their mistakes. I don't expect instant resolution, but in the end, effective resolution of complaints.

JMHO,

Pat
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:44 PM   #28
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I firmly believe expectations are just too high.
What is your expectation when you have surgery? dental implants ? we are human but you don't expect hit or miss from us do you? There are always exceptions to the rule but blatant errors/defects should not be the rule.
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