Here is a truly NEW development in the DEF failures

[Magic-carpet]

Originally Posted by R.Wold

My understanding as well, but a 2017 should be well into the digital def head era which is, to my understanding, when the Quality sensor was added, which was also the start of the majority of the failures.

If you are lucky enough to just have temp and level sensing (as that schematic shows) there are other easier actions you can take to correct and/or prevent failures. So unfortunate that there is no DSS for these units, but also fortunate that we can probably get by without one.

My 2017 chassis was built in late 2015, coach was built on it in early 2016 and we took delivery in May of 2016. I have the round plug and just temp and quantity sensor. And yes, this version is a lot less troublesome and replacement should be more readily available....

This is the response I got from Spartan back in August when I inquired about getting a spare to have on hand:

Here is the part number of your DEF head. DM401-18B5A765
We can’t sell them right now, because it is fix as failed.

Not sure what their response would be now.

[flyboy013]

As others have stated, the DEF Sensor Simulator (DSS) will not work on your coach, but that’s actually good news because it’s the newer digital version that has had the failures.

Unless you’re having issues with your DEF sensors, I’d relax knowing that your coach is not subject to the failures that have been discussed. If you are having failures there are other temporary workarounds which can be implemented to keep you moving along.

[ransil]

Originally Posted by Magic-carpet

I'm 99% sure this is the connector for our 2017 cornerstones.



https://www.customconnectorkits.com/wp05-kit/



From what I understand, the earlier models are analog and the newer DEF heads are digital and the sim will not work for us.

There should be no issues with the analog units. If there is they would be easy to bypass with a resistor and a resistor divider

[Douglee25]

Well like Post #228 - https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/her...ml#post5957035, I too have a 5 pin DEF head.

I have a 2016 Aspire, but the engine build date is late 2015.

Is this head not affected by the mass failures? I verified ECM compatibility, however, it looks like my DEF simulator will not work.

Is it not needed at all? Can it be adapted? If not, I guess I can throw it up for sale.

[Douglee25]

Any thoughts on the above?

[Archer2]

Hi DougLee25, I just saw your posts. Your OEM sensor is not going to be compatible with the DSS. It’s not just a matter of the connector, it is a fundamental problem. Your sensor works differently from the J1939 digital versions that were used starting with engines built in about 2016 and forward.
But as we’ve said before, the good news is that you are not nearly as likely to have a problem in the first place and if you do, getting parts should not be a problem.

[Douglee25]

Originally Posted by Archer2

Hi DougLee25, I just saw your posts. Your OEM sensor is not going to be compatible with the DSS. It’s not just a matter of the connector, it is a fundamental problem. Your sensor works differently from the J1939 digital versions that were used starting with engines built in about 2016 and forward.
But as we’ve said before, the good news is that you are not nearly as likely to have a problem in the first place and if you do, getting parts should not be a problem.

Good news then (sorta) lol.

I have a DEF box simulator for sale then. Already programmed and wired. $225 + shipping.

[Archer2]

Another thing since we're talking about Spartan parts. I just (finally after 4 attempts) got an email from Cummins that said that Spartan was NOT participating in the TRP program that allows Cummins to do the emergency re-programming in the case of a DEF Sensor failure. Cummins says that Spartan claims to have sufficient replacement parts readily available and therefore had elected to not participate in the TRP.
I don’t know whether Freightliner or Tiffin (Powerglide) are participating but I have not personally heard of anyone who has had the TRP performed.
Do any of you know of anyone who has? Also does anyone know whether warranty status has anything to do with whether or not one can even get a replacement Sensor at all from any of the manufacturers?

[ransil]

Originally Posted by Archer2

Another thing since we're talking about Spartan parts. I just (finally after 4 attempts) got an email from Cummins that said that Spartan was NOT participating in the TRP program that allows Cummins to do the emergency re-programming in the case of a DEF Sensor failure. Cummins says that Spartan claims to have sufficient replacement parts readily available and therefore had elected to not participate in the TRP.
I don’t know whether Freightliner or Tiffin (Powerglide) are participating but I have not personally heard of anyone who has had the TRP performed.
Do any of you know of anyone who has? Also does anyone know whether warranty status has anything to do with whether or not one can even get a replacement Sensor at all from any of the manufacturers?

last week there was a bunch of coaches going down the Entegra production line with no DEF tanks

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by Archer2

Another thing since we're talking about Spartan parts. I just (finally after 4 attempts) got an email from Cummins that said that Spartan was NOT participating in the TRP program that allows Cummins to do the emergency re-programming in the case of a DEF Sensor failure. Cummins says that Spartan claims to have sufficient replacement parts readily available and therefore had elected to not participate in the TRP.
I don’t know whether Freightliner or Tiffin (Powerglide) are participating but I have not personally heard of anyone who has had the TRP performed.
Do any of you know of anyone who has? Also does anyone know whether warranty status has anything to do with whether or not one can even get a replacement Sensor at all from any of the manufacturers?

What reason would Spartan have to not participate? Is there a cost to participate?

[Archer2]

Hi there! Long time no talk. I am just speculating here but I suspect that since the beginning Cummins has stressed that the Sensor failures were not their fault and only came reluctantly to work with the EPA on the TRP after their execs were inundated with emails from angry owners that they may very well have put a really high price on doing the TRP. After having seen how Spartan did all they could to just ignore the problem and hope it would go away, in a strange way I don’t blame Cummins for not giving them an easy out to just use the TRP as a way to continue to ignore the problem.
By the way, how's the new RV doing?

[777 Driver]

Originally Posted by redbaron73

What reason would Spartan have to not participate? Is there a cost to participate?

Although I have no personal knowledge that there's a cost charged to Spartan for Cummins to complete a diagnostic process to confirm the DEF head failure and then reprogram the ECM...BUT...I'm sure that Cummins doesn't do that gratis.

And...

That's only the beginning of the process. Once the replacement DEF head becomes available, I'd expect that there's a required return to a Cummins facility to complete the replacement and reprogram the ECM back to its original state.

Cummins is going to be paid for their participation in that process. My guess is that Spartan would receive that bill.

On the other hand, IF there are adequate replacements available, it's kind of a waste of time/money for all the ECM reprogramming.

Take care,
Stu

[redbaron73]

Originally Posted by Archer2

Hi there! Long time no talk. I am just speculating here but I suspect that since the beginning Cummins has stressed that the Sensor failures were not their fault and only came reluctantly to work with the EPA on the TRP after their execs were inundated with emails from angry owners that they may very well have put a really high price on doing the TRP. After having seen how Spartan did all they could to just ignore the problem and hope it would go away, in a strange way I don’t blame Cummins for not giving them an easy out to just use the TRP as a way to continue to ignore the problem.
By the way, how's the new RV doing?

Being coachless is driving me crazy. I thought that the travel trailer I purchased would keep me busy enough, but dang...there is nothing to do on a travel trailer...it just works. Too boring for me.


My 22 LA has been delayed several times, but is now expected to be delivered to me on 2/2/22 -- which is just too perfect of a number, so I am positive it will be delayed yet again.


Meanwhile, I am aquiring lots of stuff for future modifications, and doing research, etc. I may end up adding lithium and RV-c network to my travel trailer if the LondonAire gets delayed too much more---just to have a challenge.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by Archer2

Another thing since we're talking about Spartan parts. I just (finally after 4 attempts) got an email from Cummins that said that Spartan was NOT participating in the TRP program that allows Cummins to do the emergency re-programming in the case of a DEF Sensor failure. Cummins says that Spartan claims to have sufficient replacement parts readily available and therefore had elected to not participate in the TRP.
I don’t know whether Freightliner or Tiffin (Powerglide) are participating but I have not personally heard of anyone who has had the TRP performed.
Do any of you know of anyone who has? Also does anyone know whether warranty status has anything to do with whether or not one can even get a replacement Sensor at all from any of the manufacturers?

No real surprise. So far there has been no reasonable, substantive, or worthwhile effort to solve this problem other than by the folks who developed and brought us the DSS. Thats it. Ad hoc, grass roots works. The rest falls on its butt.