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08-30-2021, 12:26 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,640
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Here is a truly NEW development in the DEF failures
In RVTravel.com Sunday 8/29 there’s another article about the ongoing problems with DEF sensor failures and the efforts to mitigate the problem. Read down to the section entitled “RVers solve problem that industry couldn’t…”
It appears that someone has come up with a solution that has the potential to transform what has been a catastrophe into just an inconvenience to be managed until a repair can be facilitated at the owners’ convenience. Here’s the link to the article.
https://www.rvtravel.com/good-news-d...atives-coming/
__________________
2021 Entegra Aspire 44W
Previous: 2006 Newmar Essex 4508
2013 Tiffin Allegro Open Road
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08-30-2021, 12:41 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,531
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Now, if we could find a Canadian or overseas distributor, everyone could breathe easier.
Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
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08-30-2021, 12:57 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,640
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I don’t believe this device is illegal. It seems to me to fit perfectly into the language of the Regulation (quoted in the article) as not prohibited. It is NOT a “delete device”. The DEF pump, doser injector, NOx sensors are not affected in any way. Your vehicle will continue to use DEF and spray it into the SCR reaction chamber reducing NOx. Your vehicle would still pass any emissions test. The only thing that changes is that you will be responsible for monitoring your DEF level and quality manually until you get the bad sensor replaced. What it does do is prevents the ECM from erroneously triggering a derate “Inducement”.
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2021 Entegra Aspire 44W
Previous: 2006 Newmar Essex 4508
2013 Tiffin Allegro Open Road
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08-30-2021, 02:25 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Stanislaus County, CA
Posts: 601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer2
I don’t believe this device is illegal. It seems to me to fit perfectly into the language of the Regulation (quoted in the article) as not prohibited. It is NOT a “delete device”. The DEF pump, doser injector, NOx sensors are not affected in any way. Your vehicle will continue to use DEF and spray it into the SCR reaction chamber reducing NOx. Your vehicle would still pass any emissions test. The only thing that changes is that you will be responsible for monitoring your DEF level and quality manually until you get the bad sensor replaced. What it does do is prevents the ECM from erroneously triggering a derate “Inducement”.
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Exactly, no emissions impact unless you run out of DEF or get bad DEF.
__________________
2021 Flagstaff 21DS behind a 2015 Silverado 2500HD
Renogy bits: 3000W Inverter/Charger, 400Ah LiFePo4, 40A DC-to-DC. Rich Solar bits: 400W of panels, 40A MPPT. Misc bits: LevelMatePro+, SolidRemote based wireless controlled LED storage lighting
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08-30-2021, 03:03 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,640
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As a matter of fact according to Cummins QuickServeOnline if the sensor fails it will throw SPN3031 FMI9. That code WILL shut off the doser and thus cause a cessation of SCR NOx abatement. So using the device actually PREVENTS the ECM from “deleting” its own DEF/SCR systems when the sensor fails!
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08-30-2021, 03:11 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 8,149
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Whether the device is legal or not remains to be seen. I imagine those who administer the applicable regulations will weigh in on that. Perhaps more important is whether it is possible to obtain this device. If each RVer has to build his own device from scratch it won’t be of much help to the average RVer. So far I haven’t seen these for sale anywhere. Unless they can be purchased, they won’t help much.
__________________
Marc and Jill, Wellington FL
2013 Entegra Anthem 44SL
2018 Lincoln MKX
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08-30-2021, 03:23 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Peoria IL
Posts: 2,085
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If it works, this guy could build a new business.
__________________
2023 Ram 3500 H.O.
2020 DRV
2015 Entegra Aspire RBQ SOLD
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08-30-2021, 03:57 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,731
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X2 what Marc said. After reading the article, the first thing I thought was what would be faster if I was stranded, getting a DEF head or an emulator?
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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08-30-2021, 04:35 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,640
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Hi Marc & Chuck. I don't want to come off as trying to convince anyone to use or not use the device. I will just say that In the last 2 days I had to evacuate from the effects of Ida about 400 miles through rain and wind. Because I have one of these things I didn’t think twice about what my Plan B would be if my Shaw sensor decided to pack it in. I had a working fix for the problem in my kitchen cabinet. You also may be overestimating by a lot the difficulty of assembling this thing. Here’s what’s involved:
First you buy an Arduino “microcontroller-on-a-board” from a list of models that will be posted. You add an interface board that you will choose from the same list. Next you buy, also from Amazon, a pre-assembled Deutsch connector with 4 wires already attached.
When you get your order you snap the interface onto the Arduino, screw the 4 wires into the Terminals provided on the interface.
Then Download a zip file that matches your hardware, connect the board to your computer with a USB cable. Verify the connections and run the installer. That’s it. Not as hard as installing Excel on a laptop. The total cost of the hardware is about 120 bucks. The software is free. The idea is to have it already handy if and when you have the sensor failure.
__________________
2021 Entegra Aspire 44W
Previous: 2006 Newmar Essex 4508
2013 Tiffin Allegro Open Road
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08-30-2021, 04:49 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Winter: Fort Wilderness Campground
Posts: 660
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That would be great. I could use it right now. Threw a code 3031 yesterday. Made it home. Spartan said no available parts at this time. Expensive coach sitting in driveway unusable.
__________________
Paul, Cathy and Chocolate Lab, RIO
2018 Newmar Dutch Star 4362 (Spartan)
2012 Ford F-150
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08-30-2021, 05:03 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderRidge
That would be great. I could use it right now. Threw a code 3031 yesterday. Made it home. Spartan said no available parts at this time. Expensive coach sitting in driveway unusable.
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Do you know what the FMI code was that went with the 3031? Should have said something like “FMI X” where X=some number.
And did you just get 3031? Not 1761 or 3364 as well?
__________________
2021 Entegra Aspire 44W
Previous: 2006 Newmar Essex 4508
2013 Tiffin Allegro Open Road
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08-30-2021, 05:58 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer2
Hi Marc & Chuck. I don't want to come off as trying to convince anyone to use or not use the device. I will just say that In the last 2 days I had to evacuate from the effects of Ida about 400 miles through rain and wind. Because I have one of these things I didn’t think twice about what my Plan B would be if my Shaw sensor decided to pack it in. I had a working fix for the problem in my kitchen cabinet. You also may be overestimating by a lot the difficulty of assembling this thing. Here’s what’s involved:
First you buy an Arduino “microcontroller-on-a-board” from a list of models that will be posted. You add an interface board that you will choose from the same list. Next you buy, also from Amazon, a pre-assembled Deutsch connector with 4 wires already attached.
When you get your order you snap the interface onto the Arduino, screw the 4 wires into the Terminals provided on the interface.
Then Download a zip file that matches your hardware, connect the board to your computer with a USB cable. Verify the connections and run the installer. That’s it. Not as hard as installing Excel on a laptop. The total cost of the hardware is about 120 bucks. The software is free. The idea is to have it already handy if and when you have the sensor failure.
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Now it is getting easier. The unknown is difficult for those of use that are not computer programmers. I can replace a turbo, but don't have a clue how to write DEF code
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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08-30-2021, 06:13 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,640
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No code writing required of the user. If you know what a USB cable is and where to plug it in (by the way the right USB cable usually is included with the board).
__________________
2021 Entegra Aspire 44W
Previous: 2006 Newmar Essex 4508
2013 Tiffin Allegro Open Road
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08-30-2021, 06:21 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,669
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Several weeks or months ago some wise man (I think it was me) suggested the industry and regulators should grant a temporary software solution to fix this problem until the hardware is properly updated. My read is that they still don’t know what exactly is wrong. I disagree that the emulator is “legal” in the sense that it is a modification to the vehicle’s emission system. The fact that it does not increase emissions in any way doesn’t matter.
What a mess
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