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12-31-2020, 10:07 AM
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#29
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Spring Branch, TX
Posts: 2,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox
I am aware of battery charging rates. I gave the OP the information how it will work for a quick read on an Entegra.
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I only added that info because or what you said about rapid voltage drop.
Quote:
It should be 13.x volts, write that number down. Let the MH rest with nothing turned on, turn off the refrigerator circuit breaker. Take a reading off of the volt meter again. If it is starting to drop more than a few tenths, not good.
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The "rest" period needs to be an hour or more for that test to work.
Also, this kind of voltage drop reading COULD indicate weak batteries - but not necessarily. The batteries could drop from 13.4v to 12.4 volts right away and not be damaged -- just not fully charged at the start of the test.
__________________
2017 Winnebago Adventurer 37F
2016 Lincoln MKX Toad
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12-31-2020, 12:54 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox
I am aware of battery charging rates. I gave the OP the information how it will work for a quick read on an Entegra. I have been through it a few times with bad batteries on an Entegra with the Magnum volt meter.. I didn't think she would want a bunch of confusing information that would not help her solve her problem. But, I have been wrong before.
BTW that method was given to me by PJ at Entegra CS when we did a Walmart parking lot test when my factory batteries died before they were 2 years old.
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Bro box you are correct about not too much info. The only thing I question is the - amps run between-30 and - 40 when I shut the gen off
__________________
Deb&Connie
2019 Entegra Aspire 44B
2018 Wrangler JL Rubicon
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12-31-2020, 01:02 PM
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#31
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy58
Bro box you are correct about not too much info. The only thing I question is the - amps run between-30 and - 40 when I shut the gen off
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Not sure about that statement. Where are you seeing those numbers, what is on in the coach?
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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12-31-2020, 01:39 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bayfield, Ontario
Posts: 5,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwaynesmith
Entegra charge systems are not set up for lithium. At minimum you would have to replace the BIM with a lithium model. And likely the solar controller, though perhaps you could route it through the chassis side of the BIM to keep it from interacting directly with the lithium. The big issue though is the Magnum inverter/chargers, they are not lithium controllers. Lithium has a way higher bulk charge rate, a higher absorb and rest voltage, but more importantly is not supposed to have a float voltage applied, they do not self discharge like lead acid. Also things like they are supposed to be stored long term at 50% state of charge instead of 100% SOC like a lead acid battery. A lithium controller is quite a bit more involved than lead acid.
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The Entegra’s prior to Vegatouch will work as they are with lithium batteries however you have to know what you are doing. You only need to replace the BIM if you desire house battery charging while driving. One does not need a “lithium charger” to properly accomplish charging of a lithium battery. Version 2.8 of the Magnum remote will do everything necessary in terms of charge rate, custom settings of Bulk/Absorb/Float or CC/CV charge, Absorb time, and final charge settings. Version 2.9 of the remote (available now) comes with a preset lithium charge profile which may or may not be desirable or useful depending on your lithium battery manufacturer.
I would not be inclined to install lithium batteries on a Vegatouch equipped coach even with “Custom” battery charge settings as Entegra leaves out way too many necessary features of the Magnum remote with their version of the Magnum bridge.
__________________
Don & Gerri
2014 Entegra Anthem 44B
2014 Honda CRV Touring
1300W Solar, 1200AH LiFePO4 FMCA F443497
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12-31-2020, 02:05 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bayfield, Ontario
Posts: 5,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy58
Bro box you are correct about not too much info. The only thing I question is the - amps run between-30 and - 40 when I shut the gen off
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Are you seeing that amp draw on the inverter panel? For it to be that high is your fridge still ON?
__________________
Don & Gerri
2014 Entegra Anthem 44B
2014 Honda CRV Touring
1300W Solar, 1200AH LiFePO4 FMCA F443497
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12-31-2020, 02:16 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 3,122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 757driver
I would not be inclined to install lithium batteries on a Vegatouch equipped coach even with “Custom” battery charge settings as Entegra leaves out way too many necessary features of the Magnum remote with their version of the Magnum bridge.
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Don, based on my experience working through a different issue with Entegra, Firefly (VegaTouch) and Magnum, I suspect the limitations are more with the VegaTouch programming than any "Entegra version" of the Magnum ME-RVC Bridge. Here’s a simple analogy may help to explain why I feel that way.
Let’s think of the ME-RVC Bridge as a translator, similar to the translators who work at the United Nations. Let’s say the Magnum inverter speaks English and the VegaTouch panel speaks French. The VegaTouch system sends out a command in French, directing the Magnum inverter to adjust a setting or perform a task. The ME-RVC Bridge receives the command, translates to English, and passes it on to the Magnum inverter.
Similarly, as status changes occur in the Magnum inverter, the inverter sends updates to the ME-RVC Bridge in English, the ME-RVC Bridge receives those updates, translates them to French, and passes them on to the VegaTouch panel so the updated status can be displayed.
Now, since the Magnum inverter and the Magnum ME-RVC Bridge are designed by the same company (Magnum), I’m going to assume the ME-RVC Bridge has been configured such that it “understands” all the commands and status information relevant to a Magnum inverter.
The question is whether or not the VegaTouch panel has implemented the functionality necessary to take advantage of all of that functionality. And as you so correctly noted, there is a lot of functionality in a given Magnum inverter that can’t be accessed or controlled via a VegaTouch panel. My belief is that it’s more likely that the limitations lie with the VegaTouch system rather than the Magnum ME-RVC Bridge.
It’s also possible that even if the VegaTouch system is fully capable, Entegra may have chosen to ask Firefly to limit the functionality available on the VegaTouch panel, perhaps to protect less-than-knowledgeable owners from themselves and/or for other reasons.
Not trying to be argumentative or nit-picky. Just saying that I don’t think there is an “Entegra version” of the Magnum ME-RVC Bridge. But there most likely is an Entegra and/or Firefly version of the VegaTouch system that significantly limits the Magnum inverter functionality available to the owner.
Is that confusing enough for you?
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2022 Newmar Super Star 4061
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12-31-2020, 02:29 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bayfield, Ontario
Posts: 5,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ
Don, based on my experience working through a different issue with Entegra, Firefly (VegaTouch) and Magnum, I suspect the limitations are more with the VegaTouch programming than any "Entegra version" of the Magnum ME-RVC Bridge. Here’s a simple analogy may help to explain why I feel that way.
Let’s think of the ME-RVC Bridge as a translator, similar to the translators who work at the United Nations. Let’s say the Magnum inverter speaks English and the VegaTouch panel speaks French. The VegaTouch system sends out a command in French, directing the Magnum inverter to adjust a setting or perform a task. The ME-RVC Bridge receives the command, translates to English, and passes it on to the Magnum inverter.
Similarly, as status changes occur in the Magnum inverter, the inverter sends updates to the ME-RVC Bridge in English, the ME-RVC Bridge receives those updates, translates them to French, and passes them on to the VegaTouch panel so the updated status can be displayed.
Now, since the Magnum inverter and the Magnum ME-RVC Bridge are designed by the same company (Magnum), I’m going to assume the ME-RVC Bridge has been configured such that it “understands” all the commands and status information relevant to a Magnum inverter.
The question is whether or not the VegaTouch panel has implemented the functionality necessary to take advantage of all of that functionality. And as you so correctly noted, there is a lot of functionality in a given Magnum inverter that can’t be accessed or controlled via a VegaTouch panel. My belief is that it’s more likely that the limitations lie with the VegaTouch system rather than the Magnum ME-RVC Bridge.
It’s also possible that even if the VegaTouch system is fully capable, Entegra may have chosen to ask Firefly to limit the functionality available on the VegaTouch panel, perhaps to protect less-than-knowledgeable owners from themselves and/or for other reasons.
Not trying to be argumentative or nit-picky. Just saying that I don’t think there is an “Entegra version” of the Magnum ME-RVC Bridge. But there most likely is an Entegra and/or Firefly version of the VegaTouch system that significantly limits the Magnum inverter functionality available to the owner.
Is that confusing enough for you?
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Not confusing at all Larry.
I agree the Magnum bridge is more than capable of mirroring the Magnum remote but Entegra elected not to have all the features added. You are correct it is the limitations of Vegatouch through the Magnum bridge, not the bridge itself.
It is hard to say the reason for the limitations of the Vegatouch whether it’s not wanting inexperienced customers venturing into the unknown or cost of adding the features, or not fully understanding the importance of all the features for different battery manufacturers AGM batteries or different battery chemistries such as lithium. Very narrow minded as far as I am concerned.
__________________
Don & Gerri
2014 Entegra Anthem 44B
2014 Honda CRV Touring
1300W Solar, 1200AH LiFePO4 FMCA F443497
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12-31-2020, 03:07 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 3,122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 757driver
Not confusing at all Larry.
I agree the Magnum bridge is more than capable of mirroring the Magnum remote but Entegra elected not to have all the features added. You are correct it is the limitations of Vegatouch through the Magnum bridge, not the bridge itself.
It is hard to say the reason for the limitations of the Vegatouch whether it’s not wanting inexperienced customers venturing into the unknown or cost of adding the features, or not fully understanding the importance of all the features for different battery manufacturers AGM batteries or different battery chemistries such as lithium. Very narrow minded as far as I am concerned.
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Totally agree Don.
I've been frustrated enough on several occasions to seriously consider ordering a pair of Magnum remote panels and disconnecting the cables that connect the Magnum Bridge to the inverters. The only thing stopping me so far has been figuring out a a good place to mount the remote panels and how to run the cables between the remote panels and the inverters. Also not exactly sure how the VegaTouch panel would react to not being connected to the inverters, but that is something that would be easy to test before buying the remote panels.
__________________
Larry & Amy Beckner
Scottsdale, AZ
2022 Newmar Super Star 4061
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12-31-2020, 04:12 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bayfield, Ontario
Posts: 5,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LWBAZ
Totally agree Don.
I've been frustrated enough on several occasions to seriously consider ordering a pair of Magnum remote panels and disconnecting the cables that connect the Magnum Bridge to the inverters. The only thing stopping me so far has been figuring out a a good place to mount the remote panels and how to run the cables between the remote panels and the inverters. Also not exactly sure how the VegaTouch panel would react to not being connected to the inverters, but that is something that would be easy to test before buying the remote panels.
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Larry,
Ahhh, I like your thinking. It would be an interesting experiment.
__________________
Don & Gerri
2014 Entegra Anthem 44B
2014 Honda CRV Touring
1300W Solar, 1200AH LiFePO4 FMCA F443497
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12-31-2020, 05:55 PM
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#38
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 757driver
Are you seeing that amp draw on the inverter panel? For it to be that high is your fridge still ON?
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I am seeing that reading on the Magnum with the gen and motor off. The fridge and coffe maker are on
__________________
Deb&Connie
2019 Entegra Aspire 44B
2018 Wrangler JL Rubicon
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12-31-2020, 05:59 PM
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#39
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Thornville, Ohio
Posts: 3,662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy58
For the people that had to replace your batteries how did you know they were bad? My Volts are decreasing pretty fast with a - 21 volts draw and nothing but ordinary things running
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I have found the first test after charging and an hour of rest is voltage. But batteries can hold a good charge but can have a greatly reduced capacity (AH). To test the capacity I would get the batteries test after a 24 hour charge. I would take them to an auto parts store or the battery shop you will buy your batteries at. They will not be able to test the AH, but they can test the CCA. A rule of thumb is you divide CCA by 7.25 to come up with AH +-10%.
I have battery tester that will give me CCA, CA and the Europe standard that attaches to my scan tool. I test my batteries when new and using the rule of thumb compared to the new build AH rating have found the rule to be within +- 10%.
I just went through the capacity issue with a set of 6v batteries. I gave each battery a 24 hour charge by them self as 6V batteries. One battery CCA number is just about new and the other battery CCA numbers is at about 20% new. But my batteries from the manufacture is rated in AH.
For the test you need to sperate the 6V batteries and charge them as sperate 6V batteries. Because if you charge the batteries in series the max either battery can be charged to is the capacity of the lowest battery.
__________________
Art & Joyce
Thornville, OH
Kia Soul pushing a 36' DP Endeavor
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12-31-2020, 06:04 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ
Posts: 3,007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneknight
Once one has struggled with "the marginal difference in cost" of $150 per battery going from a lesser L16 AGM to a lifeline, it's only an additional $200 per battery to go Lithium and buy the last set of batteries you will ever need.
I'm struggling with this now. We don't boondock much, hoping to see quality Lithium's get to $800...
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Actually Quality Lithiums are now at $700 for Lion Energy batteries that are sold through Costco.
These batteries come with a lifetime warranty and I can tell you from personal experience that the difference between the previous Lifetime AGMs and the current Lithiums is like the difference between a Model T and a Toyota Camry..... it's just a technological step that can't be argued with.
Lithium will change your life
__________________
Paul & Jean
2001 Alpine 36FDDS (74291)-3900W Solar, 13,440Wh (525Ah @24V) LiFePO4
2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk (Hemi)
2006 Alpenlite 32RL - Sold
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12-31-2020, 06:06 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bayfield, Ontario
Posts: 5,456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy58
I am seeing that reading on the Magnum with the gen and motor off. The fridge and coffe maker are on
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If the fridge and coffee maker is still on then a 30-40 amp draw on the batteries via the inverter is normal.
__________________
Don & Gerri
2014 Entegra Anthem 44B
2014 Honda CRV Touring
1300W Solar, 1200AH LiFePO4 FMCA F443497
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12-31-2020, 06:08 PM
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#42
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,620
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy58
I am seeing that reading on the Magnum with the gen and motor off. The fridge and coffe maker are on
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The coffee maker is the killer along with the microwave and a hairdryer.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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