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Old 12-30-2020, 09:43 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Wolfy58 View Post
For the people that had to replace your batteries how did you know they were bad? My Volts are decreasing pretty fast with a - 21 volts draw and nothing but ordinary things running
An easy quick test. After being plugged in or the generator having charged the batteries disconnect the charging source and check the voltage on your volt meter. It should be 13.x volts, write that number down. Let the MH rest with nothing turned on, turn off the refrigerator circuit breaker. Take a reading off of the volt meter again. If it is starting to drop more than a few tenths, not good. Now turn everything on including a hair dryer for 10 minutes. Turn everything off and take a volt reading again. If there is a considerable drop, not good. Let rest for 10 minutes, did the volts slowly come up any? If not the batteries are bad.

Another way is if you are showing a full charge after being plugged in, 13.4v the batteries are taking a charge. If they drop to low 12v in a couple of hours, they are not holding a charge. When my batteries were bad, my Auto Gen Start was set at 12.1v. The generator was starting every 2 hours. They would not hold a charge at all.
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Old 12-30-2020, 05:12 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by brobox View Post
An easy quick test. After being plugged in or the generator having charged the batteries disconnect the charging source and check the voltage on your volt meter. It should be 13.x volts, write that number down. Let the MH rest with nothing turned on, turn off the refrigerator circuit breaker. Take a reading off of the volt meter again. If it is starting to drop more than a few tenths, not good. Now turn everything on including a hair dryer for 10 minutes. Turn everything off and take a volt reading again. If there is a considerable drop, not good. Let rest for 10 minutes, did the volts slowly come up any? If not the batteries are bad.

Another way is if you are showing a full charge after being plugged in, 13.4v the batteries are taking a charge. If they drop to low 12v in a couple of hours, they are not holding a charge. When my batteries were bad, my Auto Gen Start was set at 12.1v. The generator was starting every 2 hours. They would not hold a charge at all.


Thank you I will check that my Auto Gen won’t even start and I am set at 11.9 but it sounds like a car with a bad battery trying to start
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Old 12-30-2020, 05:24 PM   #17
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Thank you I will check that my Auto Gen won’t even start and I am set at 11.9 but it sounds like a car with a bad battery trying to start
I also found the 11.9v was to low to start the generator. I kicked the AGS up to 12.1v for that reason. I would rather have it start more often than not at all when I needed it. The colder the temps, a little more power is needed to start the generator.
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Old 12-30-2020, 05:44 PM   #18
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I agree with Chuck.... the AGS set at that level is too low. As he suggests, 12.1 seems to work better.

Do you have a digital voltmeter?

Gary

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Old 12-31-2020, 04:55 AM   #19
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For the marginal difference in cost, I would go Lifeline.
Once one has struggled with "the marginal difference in cost" of $150 per battery going from a lesser L16 AGM to a lifeline, it's only an additional $200 per battery to go Lithium and buy the last set of batteries you will ever need.

I'm struggling with this now. We don't boondock much, hoping to see quality Lithium's get to $800...
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Old 12-31-2020, 04:59 AM   #20
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Once one has struggled with "the marginal difference in cost" of $150 per battery going from a lesser L16 AGM to a lifeline, it's only an additional $200 per battery to go Lithium and buy the last set of batteries you will ever need.

...
They will be the last set, if you keep the RV over 10 years. Othewise, you need to swap them to your next RV.
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:11 AM   #21
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I agree with Chuck.... the AGS set at that level is too low. As he suggests, 12.1 seems to work better.



Do you have a digital voltmeter?



Gary



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No I don’t just on with the dial will that work?
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:41 AM   #22
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Just had an email from previous forum member that just installed Battle Born Lithium. He loves them, but he boondocks all weekend at different race tracks.
Where were Lithiums when I was boondocking in CO on every outing? Now my type of use, I could not justify the cost, but it would be great to go back to the days where I would have jumped on Lithium batteries.
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:41 AM   #23
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No I don’t just on with the dial will that work?
Yes, an old analog meter will work just fine if you have low DC range on it

My "fancy" DVM was in a mood just yesterday and wouldn't even measure 120/240 AC. So I would have loved to have an old bullet proof analog!

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Old 12-31-2020, 06:49 AM   #24
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No I don’t just on with the dial will that work?
Won't even need a volt meter to do an "in house" battery load test. It is what I use without testing each battery with a volt meter. The coach volt meter is all that is needed to see if the batteries are being fully charged, then to see if they are holding a charge. The volt meter will tell you which battery is bad, but that that won't help, they will all need to be changed if one is bad
If the batteries are not receiving a full charge, that reason needs to be found, then the volt meter will be needed.
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Old 12-31-2020, 07:02 AM   #25
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Entegra charge systems are not set up for lithium. At minimum you would have to replace the BIM with a lithium model. And likely the solar controller, though perhaps you could route it through the chassis side of the BIM to keep it from interacting directly with the lithium. The big issue though is the Magnum inverter/chargers, they are not lithium controllers. Lithium has a way higher bulk charge rate, a higher absorb and rest voltage, but more importantly is not supposed to have a float voltage applied, they do not self discharge like lead acid. Also things like they are supposed to be stored long term at 50% state of charge instead of 100% SOC like a lead acid battery. A lithium controller is quite a bit more involved than lead acid.
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Originally Posted by oneknight View Post
Once one has struggled with "the marginal difference in cost" of $150 per battery going from a lesser L16 AGM to a lifeline, it's only an additional $200 per battery to go Lithium and buy the last set of batteries you will ever need.

I'm struggling with this now. We don't boondock much, hoping to see quality Lithium's get to $800...
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Old 12-31-2020, 07:30 AM   #26
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I was just poking around on the Magnum site and see that starting July 2020 their new inverters include a lithium profile. They don't describe what it is, I'm guessing a simple one, as all they are looking at is voltage, there's no battery monitor to know its SOC. I don't know if Vegatouch would be able to access it or not, might need a programming update.

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Entegra charge systems are not set up for lithium. At minimum you would have to replace the BIM with a lithium model. And likely the solar controller, though perhaps you could route it through the chassis side of the BIM to keep it from interacting directly with the lithium. The big issue though is the Magnum inverter/chargers, they are not lithium controllers. Lithium has a way higher bulk charge rate, a higher absorb and rest voltage, but more importantly is not supposed to have a float voltage applied, they do not self discharge like lead acid. Also things like they are supposed to be stored long term at 50% state of charge instead of 100% SOC like a lead acid battery. A lithium controller is quite a bit more involved than lead acid.
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Old 12-31-2020, 08:12 AM   #27
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An easy quick test. After being plugged in or the generator having charged the batteries disconnect the charging source and check the voltage on your volt meter. It should be 13.x volts, write that number down. Let the MH rest with nothing turned on, turn off the refrigerator circuit breaker. Take a reading off of the volt meter again. If it is starting to drop more than a few tenths, not good.
Chuck, for clarification... a fully charged flooded lead acid/AGM battery is ~12.7-12.8 volts. When a charge is being applied a volt meter in your RV will show the charge current ~13.X. After the charge is removed your coach’s volt meter will still show 13.Xv but it is only a “surface charge” not the actual state of charge.

After an hour or more rest fully charged batteries will now show 12.6-12.7 volts on the meter. Rest means no charging and no load. So getting a real rest period on your RV batteries is difficult unless the RV is not being used.

If the battery bank drops below 12.6v while it is truly resting then it’s a sign your batteries won’t hold a full charge. But, be aware that it is more difficult to get a full charge then most people think. They see the 13+ volts and figure they are fully charged even when they are not. It may take 6 or more hours of charging to reach full charge, while most people think that an hour or two will do the trick.

These “rest” limitations are why using voltage for determining state of charge is so difficult. Also, the scale is so short - fully charged at 12.7v yet 50% discharged at 12.1v. And for longevity most try not to take their battery bank below 50% state of charge.

Installing a shunt-based battery monitor is a great and inexpensive way to really know your batteries true state of charge without any of those limitations. The monitor tracks all power in and out of your batteries and provides a state of charge reading in percentages not volts. And no resting is required to get an accurate reading.
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Old 12-31-2020, 09:51 AM   #28
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I am aware of battery charging rates. I gave the OP the information how it will work for a quick read on an Entegra. I have been through it a few times with bad batteries on an Entegra with the Magnum volt meter.. I didn't think she would want a bunch of confusing information that would not help her solve her problem. But, I have been wrong before.
BTW that method was given to me by PJ at Entegra CS when we did a Walmart parking lot test when my factory batteries died before they were 2 years old.
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