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Old 07-26-2021, 09:28 AM   #1
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K2 chassis DEF temp

Ok,I've just made a 2 day run up from California to Oregon in 100 degree weather. I've placed a remote temp sensor on my DEF tank and also used a laser thermometer when we were stopped for lunch. My reading of outdoor road temp varied from 89 to 111 degrees and my DEF temp sensor recorded a low of 131.9 degrees and a high of 167.4 degrees. This was with the engine at operating temperature.

The laser thermometer was used to spot check the plastic DEF tank (I know....TERRIBLE accuracy!!) The tank temp ran 108 deg to 112 deg .

For this first set of readings I placed the remote sensor in the most convenient spot for securing it on the DEF head ..tucked under the DEF return line... my next run won't be for 3 weeks but I hope to find a location to measure the DEF supply temperature and see what temp might really be stored in the tank.

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Old 07-26-2021, 09:33 AM   #2
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Interesting, I will be doing the same test on Aug 4th on the K3 chassis. Those temps are getting a little high.
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Old 07-26-2021, 11:13 AM   #3
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Those fluid temps seem really high! The specs for the 2 sensors I have found (not Shaw unfortunately) show max fluid temps between 160-185F. I wonder where the excess heat over ambient is coming from. If everything is working correctly there should NOT be any hot engine coolant circulating, the valve upstream of the coolant in port of the sensor should be closed. If you get a chance feel the coolant hose at the sensor both with the engine cold and again at operating temp. It should not be hot. Second, you have a 2014. That should be before Cummins started using the recirculated DEF fluid to cool the hot SCR injector so your setup should be cooler than a 2016 or later. I’m buying a vice grip heater hose pinch-off tool before I start my next trip to take the valve out of the equation. I’m also going to verify that the hoses are connected correctly. There is a Service Bulletin for Navistar where the coolant hoses are swapped.
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Old 07-26-2021, 01:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer2 View Post
Those fluid temps seem really high! The specs for the 2 sensors I have found (not Shaw unfortunately) show max fluid temps between 160-185F. I wonder where the excess heat over ambient is coming from. If everything is working correctly there should NOT be any hot engine coolant circulating, the valve upstream of the coolant in port of the sensor should be closed. If you get a chance feel the coolant hose at the sensor both with the engine cold and again at operating temp. It should not be hot. Second, you have a 2014. That should be before Cummins started using the recirculated DEF fluid to cool the hot SCR injector so your setup should be cooler than a 2016 or later. Iím buying a vice grip heater hose pinch-off tool before I start my next trip to take the valve out of the equation. Iím also going to verify that the hoses are connected correctly. There is a Service Bulletin for Navistar where the coolant hoses are swapped.
On my 2020 the coolant hoses for the def probe are different color for in and out.
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Old 07-26-2021, 02:00 PM   #5
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I know I have a different coach then most here but when I go through my screens, there is a sensors that is Def temp. I have not really paid much attention to it in the past but will on my next trip in few weeks. I know my coach was built in 2013 so it does not have the newer system but maybe since my coach has a def temp sensor maybe others may have one but have to go through the screens to see if there is one on these other coaches also.
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Old 07-27-2021, 01:36 PM   #6
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We live in the Phoenix metro area. Last week I took our 2018 Cornerstone in for chassis service, to a shop about 30 miles south of our house. Driving the coach back home mid-afternoon, the ambient temperature was a bit over 100 degrees F.

When I got home, I used a Fluke infrared thermometer (similar if not identical to the one in the photo below) to check the temperature of the DEF tankís outer wall. The tank was about half full. Shooting at the tank wall above the fluid level I got readings between 140 and 145 degrees F. Shooting at the tank wall toward the bottom of the tank (i.e., below the fluid level) I got readings between 130 and 135 degrees.
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Old 07-27-2021, 02:41 PM   #7
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Larry,
Those would be what I would think are normal temp readings with the temp valve operating correctly.

John,
Sounds like yours are a little high, good possibility that the temp control valve for the def is failed to the open side continually circulating 180-200 degree coolant through the def tank.
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Old 07-27-2021, 10:29 PM   #8
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We just had the LA out today after adding more insulation and the outside scope ( Drier Vent Cover) and our reading were in 110 to 115 range. When 1st start testing we were also get reading as 145 plus but after a lot of exhaust wrap, insulation and now outside vent have lowered that about 30 degrees. Is that enough to make a difference? Wait and see.
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Old 07-28-2021, 12:51 AM   #9
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Today (Tuesday 7/27/2021), I added a manual shut-off valve to the engine coolant input line to the Shaw DEF head on our 2018 Cornerstone. More info and some photos here:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/add...ve-547304.html
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Old 07-28-2021, 05:51 PM   #10
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Tom, what type of insulation are you using?
I saw the photo you posted of the dryer vent.
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Old 07-28-2021, 06:31 PM   #11
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Using Cool-it from Summit racing. Tried to use adhesive material but found with the high heat it fell down. Need to be screwed with washers to stay up. Also used muffler shield material in some sections. Did wrapped the turbo and the exhaust pipe from turbo to tail pipe end. Know the belts, hoses and electrical wiring will last a lot longer too. Also keeps the rear bath and bedroom tile about 20 degrees cooler. Other then cost of material and labor all very positive results.
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Old 07-31-2021, 06:51 PM   #12
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This is from a Tiffin with the DEF tank on the driver side rear of the side radiator and in front of the air filter.

I've previously replaced the sensor due to the typical codes (Sept 2020).

I'm getting what seems to be a "new" failure vs the typical one everyone is reporting:

SPN 1761 FMI 3 (High Level Voltage). The DEF Gauge goes to full when this happens.

This seems to have started as I tried to keep the tank at about 1/2 full to make it easier to remove when the sensor fails. The code seems to clear after a nerve wracking hour or two. It also cleared once when I simply removed the DEF cap. I'm going to keep the tank near full going forward, basically somewhere between the bottom and top of the caution sticker. I have no clue if removing the cap or keeping it filled prevents this particular code.

I can say that this code has come and gone 6x and the Cummins service manual calls for replacing the sensor if there are 5 faults within 25 engine hours. We've met that criteria, but since I'm not :

1) In derate
and
2) Stuck on the side of the road

I don't rate for a replacement.


I'll do whatever I can to never buy anything from Shaw Development. Their lack of communication on this debacle is appalling.

Has anyone tried to replace a Shaw DEF system with a Freightliner one?
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Old 08-03-2021, 06:05 PM   #13
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MAN am I glad I bought an older rig with a Cummins 8.8 liter 400 hp diesel ... steadfast engine, NO DEF SYSTEM. Man does that sound worse and worse every article I read about it. EPA - do your homework before mandating such a complex problem ridden attempt to minimally clean diesel exhaust.
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Old 08-06-2021, 08:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom chelbana View Post
We just had the LA out today after adding more insulation and the outside scope ( Drier Vent Cover) and our reading were in 110 to 115 range. When 1st start testing we were also get reading as 145 plus but after a lot of exhaust wrap, insulation and now outside vent have lowered that about 30 degrees. Is that enough to make a difference? Wait and see.
Not that I really want to ask this question, but.....Why are these (modifications, adjustments, or add ons) not performed by the manufacture at the time of the build?
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