Latest Member of the "Snakebit by DEF System" Club

[MRUSA14]

That’s nuts. With no part number or markings, how is one supposed to identify which model is which?

[brobox]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

That’s nuts. With no part number or markings, how is one supposed to identify which model is which?

JMO, they don't want us to know after six tries, they may still not have it right.

[imjustdave]

I believe the Chinese culture views "6" as unlucky.

I suspect that bar code looking thing is a part marking, maybe they forgot humans might need to read the part number at some point in time... and forgot to print it on and or emboss it.

On to Gen 7 Or Lucky #7 in Vegas... OH yay

I have to say what a contraption.

Anyone else feel that DEF tanks should have drains?
Between fluid aging out, contamination of bad def, dirt, God forbid Diesel.

[Unplanned Tourist]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

That’s nuts. With no part number or markings, how is one supposed to identify which model is which?

Zooming in a bit, I see "A174545" marked on it. Or something like that.

[Booberboo]

Originally Posted by 50sbuckeye

‘After check engine light comes on, how many miles can you drive before de-rate?

2019 Anthem - Had DEF head issue last fall. I can only relate my experience, but I was able to go 124.5 miles without a derate. When the mobile technician installed our new head, I commented I was lucky in that I never had a derate. It said, based on his OBD diagnostic tools, I in fact DID have a derate, and I was lucky enough that it happened as I was driving through the campground at 10 mph which is presumably why I didnt notice.

So... based on that I would say 125 miles, but that is by no means the actual truth.

[LWBAZ]

Originally Posted by imjustdave

I believe the Chinese culture views "6" as unlucky.

I suspect that bar code looking thing is a part marking, maybe they forgot humans might need to read the part number at some point in time... and forgot to print it on and or emboss it.

On to Gen 7 Or Lucky #7 in Vegas... OH yay

I have to say what a contraption.

Anyone else feel that DEF tanks should have drains?
Between fluid aging out, contamination of bad def, dirt, God forbid Diesel.

Actually, they do - or at least the tank in our 2018 Entegra Cornerstone does. I originally thought (and posted) that there was no drain plug, but later saw one while spending some quality time on the ground underneath the tank.

Interestingly, the drain plug on our 15-gallon tank isn't located at a low point. Just eye-balling it, I believe half an inch or more of DEF would remain on the floor of the tank after removing the drain plug.

[LWBAZ]

UPDATE AFTER DEF HEAD UNIT REPLACEMENT

We're currently in one of the RV campgrounds at Phoenix Raceway, awaiting the NASCAR races later this week. We left our home in the Phoenix area on Wednesday afternoon 3/3/2021, drove down to Tucson in a really fun windstorm for a drag racing event, then back up here to Phoenix on Monday 3/8/2021. About 300 miles total with no Check Engine lights and no fault codes.

How long that will last is anybody's guess, but for the time being we're happy campers!

[Lundman]

I have a 2019 Anthem and am heading west to do some national parks with some of my family. I am thinking of buying a Gen 6 DEF head to have as a spare in case my stock one quits working. I would have no problem replacing it in the field, but my question is this,. If my engine goes into derate and is throwing the dreaded epa codes will my coach go back to normal running if I put the new DEF head on? Or do the codes have to be cleared before it will run right. Thanks for any answers!!!!!

[LWBAZ]

Originally Posted by Lundman

I have a 2019 Anthem and am heading west to do some national parks with some of my family. I am thinking of buying a Gen 6 DEF head to have as a spare in case my stock one quits working. I would have no problem replacing it in the field, but my question is this,. If my engine goes into derate and is throwing the dreaded epa codes will my coach go back to normal running if I put the new DEF head on? Or do the codes have to be cleared before it will run right. Thanks for any answers!!!!!

Replacing the DEF head isn't technically difficult, but there are some things to be aware of:

1) You'll need two hose "pinch-off" tools, similar to what you see in the photo below. Basically vise-grip pliers with non-serrated jaws. You can find nylon versions of the same sort of tools. You'll need these to pinch off the two coolant lines that are attached to the DEF head before you loosen their clamps and pull the hoses off the DEF head. If you don't pinch the two lines, be prepared to lose quite a lot of engine coolant.

2) You don’t need to worry about pinching off the two DEF lines that are connected to the head unit, but you do need to be careful about getting them disconnected. They aren’t clamped in place; instead they’re held in place and sealed by semi-sophisticated plastic connectors. To release each connector, you’ll need to gently press down on a small oblong “button” on the connector. You can do it by hand or with a piece of soft plastic, but I’m sure it’s easier with a tool made specifically for those connectors. Fortunately, you can buy a three-piece set of the tools for about $20. Here’s a link to the manufacturer of the tool set:

https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-...disconnect-set

3) You'll need a Torx screwdriver (T-25 as I recall) to remove the two screws that hold the plate that secures the head unit into the tank.

4) Before removing the old head unit, do your best to clean up as much as you can of the dirt and grime around the head unit. If you don’t, you’ll end up with a fair amount of grime inside your DEF tank when you remove the head unit. Even if you do all you can to avoid it, you may still end up with at least some grime in the tank.

5) You'll need a fairly large flat-blade screwdriver to pry the old head unit up & out of the tank.

6) Once you have the old head unit out of the tank, use a flashlight to look down inside and see how much (if any) dirt and grime is in there. If not much you’re probably okay, but otherwise you may want to drain or siphon the DEF out of the tank, then have someone with a long skinny arm reach in there with a clean towel to clean up the inside of the tank. As noted in one of my previous posts in this thread, there is a drain plug on the bottom of the DEF tank, but you may have to look hard to find it. I didn’t remove my drain plug, but it looks like to takes a Torx or Allen sort of tool to remove it. Might be a good idea to determine that in advance so you can have the appropriate tool onboard in case you need it. I’ll check mine and post what I learn.

7) As probably goes without saying, if you have any concerns whatsoever about the quality of the DEF in your tank, get rid of it before installing the new head unit and and refill with fresh DEF once the new head unit is installed.

8) Regarding clearing the trouble codes, my experience is that they will clear themselves after a certain number of engine start-stop cycles once the new DEF head unit is installed & operational (and you have good DEF in the tank).

Bottom line, replacing a DEF head COULD be done on the side of the road or in a rest area, but it would be highly preferable to do it in an RV park or similar location where you don’t have to be in a hurry to complete the job.

[Lundman]

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

Replacing the DEF head isn't technically difficult, but there are some things to be aware of:

1) You'll need two hose "pinch-off" tools, similar to what you see in the photo below. Basically vise-grip pliers with non-serrated jaws. You can find nylon versions of the same sort of tools. You'll need these to pinch off the two coolant lines that are attached to the DEF head before you loosen their clamps and pull the hoses off the DEF head. If you don't pinch the two lines, be prepared to lose quite a lot of engine coolant.

2) You don’t need to worry about pinching off the two DEF lines that are connected to the head unit, but you do need to be careful about getting them disconnected. They aren’t clamped in place; instead they’re held in place and sealed by semi-sophisticated plastic connectors. To release each connector, you’ll need to gently press down on a small oblong “button” on the connector. You can do it by hand or with a piece of soft plastic, but I’m sure it’s easier with a tool made specifically for those connectors. Fortunately, you can buy a three-piece set of the tools for about $20. Here’s a link to the manufacturer of the tool set:

https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-...disconnect-set

3) You'll need a Torx screwdriver (T-25 as I recall) to remove the two screws that hold the plate that secures the head unit into the tank.

4) Before removing the old head unit, do your best to clean up as much as you can of the dirt and grime around the head unit. If you don’t, you’ll end up with a fair amount of grime inside your DEF tank when you remove the head unit. Even if you do all you can to avoid it, you may still end up with at least some grime in the tank.

5) You'll need a fairly large flat-blade screwdriver to pry the old head unit up & out of the tank.

6) Once you have the old head unit out of the tank, use a flashlight to look down inside and see how much (if any) dirt and grime is in there. If not much you’re probably okay, but otherwise you may want to drain or siphon the DEF out of the tank, then have someone with a long skinny arm reach in there with a clean towel to clean up the inside of the tank. As noted in one of my previous posts in this thread, there is a drain plug on the bottom of the DEF tank, but you may have to look hard to find it. I didn’t remove my drain plug, but it looks like to takes a Torx or Allen sort of tool to remove it. Might be a good idea to determine that in advance so you can have the appropriate tool onboard in case you need it. I’ll check mine and post what I learn.

7) As probably goes without saying, if you have any concerns whatsoever about the quality of the DEF in your tank, get rid of it before installing the new head unit and and refill with fresh DEF once the new head unit is installed.

8) Regarding clearing the trouble codes, my experience is that they will clear themselves after a certain number of engine start-stop cycles once the new DEF head unit is installed & operational (and you have good DEF in the tank).

Bottom line, replacing a DEF head COULD be done on the side of the road or in a rest area, but it would be highly preferable to do it in an RV park or similar location where you don’t have to be in a hurry to complete the job.

Thanks for all the good info. My main concern is if I go into derate on the road will installing a new def head get me going again without having the codes cleared by Cummins. From your answer you seem to think you can replace the def head and the codes will eventually clear themselves.
Thanks again for the response!!!

[brobox]

Originally Posted by Lundman

Thanks for all the good info. My main concern is if I go into derate on the road will installing a new def head get me going again without having the codes cleared by Cummins. From your answer you seem to think you can replace the def head and the codes will eventually clear themselves.
Thanks again for the response!!!

If you are carrying a spare, you will change the DEF head before you go into derate. Seems the average mileage has been about 250 before derate. From Larry and J.H's reports the codes cleared with several restarts.

[LWBAZ]

With regard to the fault codes clearing up after a new DEF head is installed...

The Nexas NL102PLUS code reader I purchased wouldn't clear them. I'm not sure there is a code reader on the market that will clear EPA-related codes while the error condition is still present or is still recorded as active. Even if you could find such a device and were willing to spend what it would likely cost ($$$$), the codes would come right back if the error condition is still present.

So the question is, how do the onboard diagnostic routines determine the problems that triggered the codes are no longer present? As best I can tell from my personal experience, that doesn't happen the instant you turn on the ignition key and start the engine.

There have been discussions on this forum regarding the recommended engine starting procedure, specifically to turn the key on and WAIT a given period of time for "the system" to run through all of its power-up checks and diagnostics. That may be particularly important after replacing a failed DEF head unit.

When I was trying to clear my three DEF-related codes after replacing the failed Gen 5 head unit with a new Gen 6, I tried several engine start-up & shut-down cycles. I did wait a period of time to start the engine after turning on the key, but on the first few attempts I may not have waited long enough.

In any case, after half a dozen or so attempts, the codes disappeared. I didn't have to drive the coach - all of that occurred with the coach parked in our onsite RV garage. Based on what I think I learned, here is what I would do after replacing a failed DEF head unit:

-Turn on ignition key.
- Wait longer than you think you need to - 30 seconds or so at least, maybe even longer.
- Start the engine.
- Let it run for a minute or two (60 to 120 seconds).
- See if the codes have cleared.
- If not, turn the key off.
- Wait a minute of two, and repeat the steps listed above.

It may take half a dozen or so iterations, but based on my experience I'm relatively confident this approach will eventually clear the fault codes.

[WDW]

May I ask where does replacing the filter fit in the discussion as preventative when replacing old/ out of calibration fluid or after a head replacement? Are filters inexpensive and if serviced preventative?

[tom chelbana]

The DEF filters are in the 25 to 50 dollar range. Some are changing filter annually and others aren't since the suggested replacement time is 200K miles. Should at least have one with you should the light come on for DEF. Again the filter is next to the tank so you don't need to drain tank to replace DEF filter. Larry has done a outstanding job covering the DEF issues. We have a Newmar London AIre with the Spartan K-3 605 chassis and it appears for some reason that Entegra Spartan chassis have more problems then the Newmar's. Should be the same since there shouldn't be any difference with DEF systems.