Long term DEF supply

[Les1951]

I had an interesting discussion with a long haul trucker yesterday. I am not sure about all the facts he quoted, but he was concerned about the future availability of DEF. Apparently a significant quantity of commercial urea will be diverted to agricultural applications, and the imports of urea are restricted as part of the Russian embargo. Is anyone out there have any information about this issue ?

[Jake21]

Saw this on FB, so take it with a grain:

Do you know what DEF fluid is? It's Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Every Diesel truck that has been made since 2010 is required to use it. It's a product made of 67% Urea fertilizer and 33% distilled water. Every diesel truck you see driving down the road today has to have this product to drive. The engines won't start without it. There are regulators inside the engine that mix DEF with the Diesel to reduce Diesel emissions. That's the purpose of DEF.
Right now, Russia is the largest exporter of Urea by a wide margin. Qatar is second. Egypt and China are Tied for 3rd. Both Russia and China have decided to no longer export Urea. On top of that, India is the largest manufacturer of Urea in the world even though they consume most of what they make. What little they would export..........they no longer do. They are now stopping the exportation of any and all Urea minus a deal they just cut with Sri Lanka.
What does this mean for you and me? Well, first, the United States imports most of it's Urea fertilizer. We are the third largest importer in the entire world. We depend on other countries to eat, drive and ship our products.
Secondly... Flying J is the largest Service provider for Truckers around the Unites States. I'm sure you've seen their massive gas stations when traveling around the country. Flying J gets 70% of their DEF fluid from shipments via Union Pacific railroad. UP has single user access to the Fertilizer plants that Urea/DEF fluid comes from. No other rail provider has access to these distribution points. This means Flying J can't just go around Union Pacific. Union Pacific is in charge....for a reason I'm gonna mention in a few paragraphs.
Flying J provides 30% of all DEF consumed in the United States. UP has told Flying J to reduce their shipments by a whopping 50%. And if they do not comply then they will be completely embargoed. That would in effect bankrupt FJ. This means that 15% of all DEF consumed by truckers in the US is no longer available at the largest travel service center for the entire trucking industry.
Rome rotted from the inside out. It was easily invaded because it was occupied with internal problems. It appears we have discovered the Trigger. DEF fluid. If this holds up, DEF shortages will be the catalyst that causes food shortages in the coming months. Not only is there a shortage of fertilizer to grow crops in drought-stricken states (See Kansas' drop in wheat production for 2022)....but....now it looks like, unless the Federal Government intervenes via the Defense Production Act, ...which I am no longer confident they will....there is gonna be an absolute massive shortage of trucking in the coming months.
There simply isn't going to be DEF fluid sufficient to keep the engines running and moving. Home Depot is now limiting the amount of DEF you can buy in their stores.
I would think long and hard about the decisions you are making right now. Where you live. What you spend money on. How you prepare. This is so real that the CEO of Flying J, Shameek Konar was summoned to a Surface Transportation Board hearing to give them all this info.
From what I'm reading....Blackrock is the majority shareholder of Union Pacific railroad. How is that important? Americas biggest fertilizer producer is CF Industries. Their largest shareholder is Blackrock. Blackrock controls the fertilizer industry in the U.S.. Union Pacific has exclusive rights to distribution points of fertilizer. Urea is fertilizer. Flying J needs Urea/DEF. Blackrock is controlling everything.

[Mod Edit]

[Warhorse6]

Lots of buzz out there about this and I’ve seen what Jake21 wrote. Know it is getting more challenging to find it in the jugs but that doesn’t mean a crisis is looming. Just hope someone has their eye on the ball and being proactive so we don’t have a situation like the baby formula.

[Lt Dan]

Originally Posted by Jake21

Do you know what DEF fluid is? It's Diesel Exhaust Fluid. Every Diesel truck that has been made since 2010 is required to use it. It's a product made of 67% Urea fertilizer and 33% distilled water.

Actually, that is in error. DEF is 32.5% Urea and 67.5% deionized water.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by Lt Dan

Actually, that is in error. DEF is 32.5% Urea and 67.5% deionized water.

And, not every diesel truck built since 2010 uses it. Nor does every diesel truck driving down the roads need this product. I couldn’t make it past the first paragraph.

Now back to your regularly scheduled Chicken Little News.

[brobox]

I Google the subject yesterday due that email I received regarding the subject. There are many articles on the shortage and why.

[LWBAZ]

“It's a product made of 67% Urea fertilizer and 33% distilled water.”

As already pointed out, the writer has the percentages backwards.

“Every diesel truck you see driving down the road today has to have this product to drive. The engines won't start without it.”

Actually, the engine will start and run for a period of time, but fault codes will appear and derating of engine power output will ensue.

“There are regulators inside the engine that mix DEF with the Diesel to reduce Diesel emissions.”

Wholly incorrect. DEF is sprayed into the engine’s exhaust stream, not mixed with diesel fuel.

For the sake of discussion, let’s assume there was absolutely no DEF available anywhere in the country. The EPA could declare an emergency and allow Cummins and other diesel engine manufacturers to apply patches to the Engine Control Module software to ignore DEF quality signals from the DEF head sensors. Truckers and others could then fill their DEF tanks with plain ol’ water and continue on. Which is in fact what many truckers did before the EPA mandated an update to the original sensors which monitored only quantity and temperature.

Who knows if the EPA would initiate such action, but the point is that it would take more than an unavailability of DEF to bring the country to its knees.

[saddlesore]

Originally Posted by LWBAZ

“It's a product made of 67% Urea fertilizer and 33% distilled water.”

As already pointed out, the writer has the percentages backwards.

“Every diesel truck you see driving down the road today has to have this product to drive. The engines won't start without it.”

Actually, the engine will start and run for a period of time, but fault codes will appear and derating of engine power output will ensue.

“There are regulators inside the engine that mix DEF with the Diesel to reduce Diesel emissions.”

Wholly incorrect. DEF is sprayed into the engine’s exhaust stream, not mixed with diesel fuel.

For the sake of discussion, let’s assume there was absolutely no DEF available anywhere in the country. The EPA could declare an emergency and allow Cummins and other diesel engine manufacturers to apply patches to the Engine Control Module software to ignore DEF quality signals from the DEF head sensors. Truckers and others could then fill their DEF tanks with plain ol’ water and continue on. Which is in fact what many truckers did before the EPA mandated an update to the original sensors which monitored only quantity and temperature.

Who knows if the EPA would initiate such action, but the point is that it would take more than an unavailability of DEF to bring the country to its knees.

As a retired Truck Owner/Driver .. Thank You for an Accurate Explanation..

[Gary.Jones]

You can get as much inaccurate - misinformed information on these forums as you can get accurate information (maybe sometimes more).

Congrats to the people who called this "baloney" (incorrect information) as quickly as they did. Keep up the good "police" work

Gary

[Meames1]

Some of the terminology used is inaccurate, yes. But watching a video of Shameek Konar the CEO of Pilot / Flying J testifying about the issue is border line terrifying.
I remember a bunch of folks also saying hogwash to the notion of diesel prices getting this high (as they were also warned).
The "Chicken little" and "Baloney" comments may be tough to swallow soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7EFCIOwexg

[Kid Gloves]

Sounds like a fabricated logistics problem.

If I had to take a shot in the dark, I’d say that Union Pacific is trying to force Pilot to reduce their rail cargo so that UP can turn a higher profit transporting some other product.

[oneknight]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

Sounds like a fabricated logistics problem.

If I had to take a shot in the dark, I’d say that Union Pacific is trying to force Pilot to reduce their rail cargo so that UP can turn a higher profit transporting some other product.

And running out of baby food is a third world problem.

[Mwoodofd]

Originally Posted by Kid Gloves

Sounds like a fabricated logistics problem.

If I had to take a shot in the dark, I’d say that Union Pacific is trying to force Pilot to reduce their rail cargo so that UP can turn a higher profit transporting some other product.

Agree with that, the rail system is hauling 53" stack train containers and not the standard 40' HQ containers as much - the 40'HQ are sitting in the ports waiting on the train ride because the 53' is taking more of the train capacity. I can see that driving to and from California from Dallas.

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by oneknight

And running out of baby food is a third world problem.

Who said that? Let’s stick to the topic.

We have a shipper dictating to a retailer the amount of product the retailer can ship. The retailer wants to ship more product than the shipper wants to ship because the retailer can sell more product than the shipper is willing to ship.

Do we have a shortage or a logistical problem?