Magnum to Victron Inverter/Charger Swap

[SouthTX]

A couple of days ago in another thread, I mentioned that I was hearing bad things about Magnum inverters. NOT that they were going out of business, but I was told it looked like they were getting out of the RV/Boat line of business. I can add to that report that today I talked to an RV service shop that does a lot of solar and Li conversions and they said they have been doing a lot of inverter changes because repair parts are unavailable. I also talked to a well known web source of solar and they flat out said it looked to them like Magnum was going down the tube.



Again, please don't shoot the messenger, I'm just sharing what I'm hearing and it may be totally incorrect. BUT, I can't get repair parts or a replacement for my Magnum inverter/charger so I'm forced to bite the bullet and change out this system.


So, for all the above reasons, I've come to the source of all Entegra knowledge to beg for help (or at least some pity <G>).



I have a 2019 Aspire 44B, non-VT, single inverter, and it has been converted to Li batteries. The failed Magnum inverter - which I don't think is original - is an MSH3012RV-L and has an ARC in the panel over the door. I couldn't get the Magnum shunt to play nice and ended up installing a Victron BT shunt.


So my question is what is the Victron functional equivalent of the Magnum unit? I love the Victron equipment, but their catalog is a mess and I can't figure out exactly what unit I need. I thought the MultiPlus was what I needed, but I'm told that it only passes through a single leg - IOW, a 30 amp unit. The MultiPlus II seems to be a 50 amp unit that passes both legs, the problem being that the case is nearly twice as long and won't fit into the Magnum footprint without some serious cable moving. Does anyone know exactly what unit I need?


FWIW, the Magnum ARC uses an RJ12 cable while the Victron talks to their Touch GX panel using an HDMI cable and it would be a very long run to over the entrance door for HDMI. However, the Victron system has a communication hub (Cerbo) that adds BT and Wifi capability that would take the place of the ARC remote and allow configuration. I suppose I could fish a cable up in the forward bathroom and mount the Touch GX panel there, but I hate fishing wires. The Cerbo also adds AGS capability based on battery SOC.


All suggestions appreciated.

[bevandtomH]

John, you might go to You Tube and check out Gary’s RVLivingLife channel. He replaced his Magnum inverters with Victron, along with some other things.
May be worth reaching out to him.
I know he looks at this forum but not sure how often.

[SouthTX]

Originally Posted by bevandtomH

John, you might go to You Tube and check out Gary’s RVLivingLife channel. He replaced his Magnum inverters with Victron, along with some other things.
May be worth reaching out to him.
I know he looks at this forum but not sure how often.

Thanks, Tom. Lots of good Victron videos there and I'm finding all sorts of neat features I didn't know about. Still confused, but it looks like most people are using the MultiPlus II.

[Ludo]

Hi, you can use the cerbo without any panel, you can operate it over wifi /bt with every pad or smartphone. If you connect it to your hotspot you can even remotely connect over the internet through the Victron vrm cloud.

[SouthTX]

Originally Posted by Ludo

Hi, you can use the cerbo without any panel, you can operate it over wifi /bt with every pad or smartphone. If you connect it to your hotspot you can even remotely connect over the internet through the Victron vrm cloud.

Yes, the Cerbo GX opens up all sorts of possibilities, most importantly to me right now is I can avoid having to fish wires for a remote. I'll be able to monitor and configure the system with a tablet.


There's also a Cerbo S-GX that removes a couple of features that I'll never use like tank levels.

[SouthTX]

It came to me in the middle of the night last night - I think.


AC power comes in through the transfer switch and goes to two 50 amp ganged breakers.
On the L1 side of the breaker box is a 30 amp breaker that feeds the inverter/charger.
If AC is present on L1, the charger feeds the batteries and inverter sub-panel.
If AC is not present on L1, the inverter feeds the inverter sub-panel with AC produced from battery power.
The MultiPlus inverter/charger does not have, nor does it need, 50 amp input and it has a single AC output (for both "raw" AC and AC from the inverter).


All the sales people/experts have been telling me that I needed an inverter charger with two 50 amp inputs and two AC outlets. (My Aspire is a single inverter coach.) They have been showing me schematics of the inverters, but ignoring the "as installed" configuration.



That's very good news for me as the MultiPlus II is ten inches longer and won't easily fit the existing Magnum footprint. Only a couple of hundred bucks difference in cost, but a huge savings on the installation.



However - and I'm going way out on a limb - it may be even better news for two inverter coach owners considering the problems I'm finding with Magnum. I *think* a single MultiPlus II installation will take the place of two Magnum inverter/chargers as the MultiPlus II accepts two AC inputs and has two AC outputs.


Considering that the Victron units are roughly $1000 less expensive than the same wattage Magnum and would only require a single unit, that's a considerable savings (although you'd probably want a 5000kw unit).


The downside for VT coaches is that some VT capabilities would be lost, although the Victron system would replace some and add other functions. VT owners would no long be held hostage by Firefly.


Can anyone please confirm my understanding of this system?

[LWBAZ]

John, what follows won't answer all of your questions, but may be somewhat helpful...

I've owned several motorhomes with Magnum inverters, including a 2018 Cornerstone which had two of them. Our current motorhome is a 2022 Newmar Super Star which was built in early 2022. It normally would have come with a Magnum inverter, but due supplier shortages a Victron MultiPlus 12/3000/120 inverter was installed instead.

The first of the attached photos shows the front of the inverter. The “12” indicates 12 volts input. The 3000 indicates 3000 watts capacity. The 120 indicates 120 volt output.

The second photo shows the Victron inverter as mounted in our coach. The adjacent 50 amp power cord reel will give you an idea as to the size of the inverter.

The third & fourth photos show a couple of screens on the Victron GX Touch 50 display.

The fifth photo shows a Victron MK3-USB device I needed to purchase so I could connect my laptop computer to the Victron inverter. That was necessary to make configuration changes similar to what you can do with a Magnum remote panel.

We’ve now owned the Super Star for about 15 months. My take on the Victron inverter versus the Magnum inverters I’ve had is mostly plus but some minus.

On the plus side, the Victron is a lot “smarter” when running a recharge cycle. I say that because the Victron inverter determines how discharged the battery bank happens to be and adjusts the time of the Absorb phase accordingly. So if the bank is deeply discharged the Absorb phase will run longer. And if the bank is only slightly discharged the Absorb phase will run a lesser period of time. As you probably know, the Magnum inverters run the Absorb phase the same amount of time every time, regardless of how discharged the bank may or may not be.

On the minus side, you can adjust very few settings on a Victron inverter, unless/until you buy the MK3-USB device mentioned above. And once you do that, you have to locate or be told a secret Victron passcode that will allow you to make changes. I have the code, so if you go with a Victron inverter and end up needing it, feel free to contact me.

The other negative with Victron is that it’s virtually impossible to call the company and talk to a real person. There are numerous online resources, including many boaters who know just about anything & everything about Victron inverters, but I still find it very disappointing that you can’t call Victron and talk to a real person.

On balance, I’m happy with our Victron inverter and do consider it a step up from the Magnum inverters I’ve had.

[SouthTX]

Larry, thank you very, very much as you have confirmed exactly what I wanted to hear. The fact that you have a single inverter coach and you're using the MultiPlus (not the II) hits what has been my biggest problem. And what you say about their customer support is the other problem I've been having.

With no national CS support, users have to rely on the distributors for tech support. I've been talking to two of the largest web sources and both of their experts have been insistent that I needed the MultiPlus II. They were just looking at the inverter schematic and had no idea how everything was wired. Once I got my arms around the pass through function everything fell into place nicely.

The MultiPlus II can be programmed to do what I want, it just won't fit into the space I have available and would be a very involved installation.

Ironically, Magnum CS answered on the first ring and was very helpful in troubleshooting. They just couldn't tell me where to get it fixed or find a replacement. <G>

The added features of the Victron system that you mention have been very attractive, too. Not only will the installation be much simpler, but between the Cerbo GX and the Micro-Air thermostat I'll have a poor-boy VT - without the VT bugs. <G>

Thank you again for the input and photos.

Best,

[voltdoc]

If needed, you might try contacting PKYS for design/installation/support questions. They have been helpful to me over the years and have now expanded beyond marine applications.

[creativepart]

I believe the 3000w Multiplus Victron would be the equivalent inverter/charger to the Magnum. The CerboGX is a great addition, but I doubt it’s necessary, is it? The inverter has all the information and setup options on the Bluetooth app as standard. The CerboGX just combines data displays from multiple Victron devices into one handy location rather than opening multiple Victron Apps to see multiple devices.

I have a Magnum MS2012 inverter/charger and knew the company was no longer supplying parts or support for older Dimension models, but had not heard about the same for newer Magnum models. It did seem odd they haven’t updated any models or features for a very long time.

[SouthTX]

Originally Posted by voltdoc

If needed, you might try contacting PKYS for design/installation/support questions. They have been helpful to me over the years and have now expanded beyond marine applications.

Thanks, Rob. Nice to know of a reputable source that can support this equipment. Everything is on order, now, and my local shop is lined up to install it.


I was just thinking that if I had an older coach and was doing a lithium conversion and could start from scratch, I'd rip everything out and put in two towable type converters and two 2000 watt inverters all set up in parallel. It would eliminate the auto pass through function that seems to confuse everyone, it would be easy to troubleshoot and be totally redundant.


Simple is good and I think I've spent more time learning this coach than enjoying it. If I hadn't spent nearly two years lurking on this forum, I think I'd be totally overwhelmed.

[SouthTX]

Originally Posted by creativepart

I believe the 3000w Multiplus Victron would be the equivalent inverter/charger to the Magnum. The CerboGX is a great addition, but I doubt it’s necessary, is it? The inverter has all the information and setup options on the Bluetooth app as standard. The CerboGX just combines data displays from multiple Victron devices into one handy location rather than opening multiple Victron Apps to see multiple devices.

I have a Magnum MS2012 inverter/charger and knew the company was no longer supplying parts or support for older Dimension models, but had not heard about the same for newer Magnum models. It did seem odd they haven’t updated any models or features for a very long time.

That's exactly what I ended up with in spite of all the "experts" telling me that I needed to go to a MultiPlus II in order to get 50 amp passthrough. I finally figured out that none of these inverters actually passed 50 amp. Wasn't much of a cost difference between the two units, but the II would have been a real bear to install.


Yes, the Cerbo is a nice to have feature that I could live without, but it adds wifi, integrates SOC data from the shunt, and generally makes configuration easier. I also have a Touch 50 that I'll install IF I can find an easy cable route up to the half bath panel.

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by SouthTX

That's exactly what I ended up with in spite of all the "experts" telling me that I needed to go to a MultiPlus II in order to get 50 amp passthrough. I finally figured out that none of these inverters actually passed 50 amp. Wasn't much of a cost difference between the two units, but the II would have been a real bear to install.


Yes, the Cerbo is a nice to have feature that I could live without, but it adds wifi, integrates SOC data from the shunt, and generally makes configuration easier. I also have a Touch 50 that I'll install IF I can find an easy cable route up to the half bath panel.

This probably won't work, or at least not as easily, on your year (because I think you have the hutch? and I think that occupies the wall cavity), but see the first few photos at the link below for how I ran wires up to the half bath panel.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xjMavWpwYM9GGJHu6

[voltdoc]

Originally Posted by SouthTX

Thanks, Rob. Nice to know of a reputable source that can support this equipment. Everything is on order, now, and my local shop is lined up to install it.

I was just thinking that if I had an older coach and was doing a lithium conversion and could start from scratch, I'd rip everything out and put in two towable type converters and two 2000 watt inverters all set up in parallel. It would eliminate the auto pass through function that seems to confuse everyone, it would be easy to troubleshoot and be totally redundant.


Simple is good and I think I've spent more time learning this coach than enjoying it. If I hadn't spent nearly two years lurking on this forum, I think I'd be totally overwhelmed.

Good luck! Let us know how it turns out.