New Coach Warning

[FJJ]

Here’s an idea. What if we all packed all the junk we find in a box and ship it back to the manufacturer and tell them we didn’t pay for this? If all of us did this I’m sure they would get overwhelmed with the shipments and correct the problem.

[Ken Thompson]

Originally Posted by Pammyjill13

Yep. That’s what happens when scab labor (non Union) workers build these things.

There are a lot of great professionals that do great work. Most do better work than the entitled union workers. I was in a union for a while, but I made all of them look bad because I was working too fast.

[SurfsideGolfer]

My father was an RV dealer in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Growing up his children all worked in the dealership as entry level employees, and our job was to clean the massive amount of wood splinters, saw dust, and tools left behind.
He rep’t several brands, some I still see today. Shoddy workmanship and leaving a mess seem to be the standard, regardless of brand or cost. The RV industry has never been concerned about the customer’s opinion. They would rather “mask” over the shortcomings.

[SurfsideGolfer]

I have found coaches from the 90s to 2009 are built much better. I now drive a 2006 Monaco and with my advancing age, it will be my last. Getting ready to update fridge, and one sofa. All else still working good. Love driving that Roadmaster chassis.

[richardgood]

I have a 98 Beaver and all the inacessible areas I have worked in were spotlessly clean except for one blob of glue about 1" diameter

[ArkRVHog]

Originally Posted by garysfb

Perhaps we were lucky that our new then 2018 Anthem was used at the Super show in Tampa after we had bought it. They, Lazy Days, told us that it was committed for the show as we were completing the purchase. We weren't thrilled but were assured that any damage would be fixed and the coach thoroughly cleaned. To date we have found nothing like what has been mentioned in this thread. My guess is they went through it prior to the show and after.

And this thread has started me thinking that buying used, may be the way to go, if we were looking to trade; just to have all of those first year or two issues taken care of. Or off the lot, like we did, as the dealer will probably do a more thorough check before displaying it. Food for thought.

I was right on the verge of plunking down a deposit for a factory order Newmar New Aire. Kept reading about all the time new owners were spending at their dealer or the factory getting the bugs worked out...for months. All of a sudden our "bug-free" Class C seemed pretty good to to us. There will be a LOT of used RV's available in the next 2-3 years...I hope to find one for a fair price from an owner who has worked out most of the bugs at that point. We'll see!

[Florida Rang]

AMEN ,,on buying used in 2 - 3 yrs . Gives me more time to look around and decide on what Brand I want…

[rarebear.nm]

The problem of trash left behind is not unique to RVs. Boeing was called out when tools and trash was found in military jets. Required a long delivery delay until they could all be opened and inspected. I'm sure the issue extends to many other manufactured products. I'd guess it's largely a management issue and profit driven managers responding to Wall Street boys.

IMO- when MBA types are calling the shots quality goes goes down.

[Reichster]

It's too bad we can't get the Lemon Law extended to the RV industry. That way when they want to sit on it for more than 30 days they would get to buy it back. If that were the case the factory might take care of all the issues before shipping and leaving it up to the dealers to fix who are not in a hurry to fix anything. We have a 1999 Dutchstar DP and a 2019 Montana 5er. The Dutchstar is so superior compared to the Montana except when it has to go to the truck shop. Last time in the shop was for a bolt that holds the hydraulic driven fan for the side radiator shearing off allowing the fan to drop and the fan and drive were history. A four hour repair took 3 1/2 weeks because the commercial big rigs were regular customers and came first. The idea with the Montana is if something goes wrong with the Ram P/U we are a direct customer and we usually get it back in a day or two, not weeks later and we're not looking for a place to stay for week's. When we had a fuel pump start leaking under warranty Dodge sent a new one from Detroit, wouldn't let the dealer dig into the pump and gave us a car to run around in while the replacement was on the way.

Every time we take the Montana out for a trip and stop there is saw dust on the counters or floors. A couple of weeks ago I pulled the panels in the storage bay to trace some wiring and there were piles of sawdust and screws in various places. Easy clean up but should have been done in the first place.

[Vanwill]

I'm sure there is not a single motor vehicle manufacturer on the planet that is not ISO-registered...or registered to a higher standard. Although the quality of cars today may not be what you think it should be, it is eons ahead of 1955.

As an owner of a small 25-man CNC machine shop of less than $4M annual sales, becoming ISO-registered in the late 1990's was a huge expense and required totally retraining all toolmakers, programmers, and machine operators, NOT just QC personnel. Had I not been forced to do it by aircraft customers that required ISO-registered vendors, I would never have done so.

But the resultant increase of productivity, tremendous decrease in NCP's (non-conforming product rejects) turned that huge expense into a dynamo of increased productivity....and PROFITS!! (Think "customer complaints immediately after delivery").

I could write a novel about this but won't. Suffice it to say that ISO-registered companies DO NOT have to produce a HIGH QUALITY product. They simply must write a "Job Description" for every single facet of the production of a product. They must be able to DOCUMENT traceability of every single material used in production, back to not only the distributor from whom they bought it, but the steel or aluminum mill that produced it, and on what date, from which facility, and provide a "Heat" number (identification of the raw material from which the material was wrought, rolled or extruded.

They must also DOCUMENT that there is a "Work Instruction" that describes IN DETAIL how the component material was machined, fabricated, welded, or assembled...and that the Work Instruction was attested to have been done according to the Work Instruction by a PARTICULAR operator, at a PARTICULAR time and DATE, in compliance with the Work Instruction. How many times have you found a screw driven in at an obviously poor angle in your RV?

What a PITA that was to institute in my company!! The first two years, it cost me a huge decrease in profit.

But the advantages soon became evident...and profitable. Once you get every INDIVIDUAL employee to "sign off" that the accomplished the operation was done as per the Work Instruction, you have accountability.

Long story short, ISO registration made immense productivity and profit advantages for my small company. You might look down your nose at a Freightliner chassis, but you can give them your chassis number and ask for the specifications of the bolt that clamps the steering shaft universal joint to the steering gear...and they will almost instantly be able to give it to you...the specs, the supplier, and at what date the particular bolt was added to inventory at Freightline.

And to repeat, ISO registration does NOT require that you make a superior quality product. It simply requires that you can document that you made every single part or assembly THE SAME WAY, AND YOU CAN PROVE IT...and document that you used exactly the same specification part to do so! You can easily retain your ISO registration if you produce the poorest quality product on the planet...as long as you can DOCUMENT and PROVE that every product included identical materials and processes.

Monaco products are often referred to as "snowflakes"--no two ever assembled exactly the same way. That is the result of NOT documenting your processes. Monaco could never have attained ISO registration without as thorough an overhaul as I had to do in my small machine shop.

Moral of this story is that I do not know of a single ISO registered motor home or travel trailer manufacturer in this country (perhaps any other country?) that has achieved ISO registration.

The first time you see ANY RV manufacturer achieve ISO registration, you will begin to see consistency in construction, quality upgrades due to frequent defects, and not a "snowflake" group of products.

ISO registration is NOT a QUALITY-CONTROL program!!! It is a manufacturing process documentation system. But it will inevitably lead you to making higher quality product. The first time an RV manufacturer achieves (or even shows interest in achieving) ISO registration, you will be looking at an industry leader that quickly disembowels most competitors.

[Stevens10]

Originally Posted by rarebear.nm

The problem of trash left behind is not unique to RVs. Boeing was called out when tools and trash was found in military jets. Required a long delivery delay until they could all be opened and inspected. I'm sure the issue extends to many other manufactured products. I'd guess it's largely a management issue and profit driven managers responding to Wall Street boys.

IMO- when MBA types are calling the shots quality goes goes down.

You said what I didn't on my earlier post, since the bean counters took over the world the engineers are no longer allowed the time to get the design right, the purchasing people cannot buy the quality components, but must buy on price only, and the managers cannot make the labor force stop and do it right, because it will take too long!
Jay Stevens, PE

[PanJH]

Originally Posted by Nowabeachbum

Since the very beginning, Entegra has had problems with clean up. If that’s your only issues, consider yourself very lucky! Welcome to the world of new coach ownership. And Entegra is not unique.

That is correct.... you should have seen all the junk I found in our Newmar. I guess they figure it's easier to hide stuff behind drawers,under slides,etc. than it is to clean it up.

[tcg]

My tiny little company of 30 years preps new boat deliveries from 11' up to over 60'.

I have a lot of tools, drill bits, rolls of tape, etc... from the factory and that's the stuff out in the open.

Point is, as someone else said, it's not the RV industry alone.

I get that you guys paid a crap ton of money for something but if you think a factory is going to detail parts of an RV that normally never get seen your expectations are a little high. But if that debris interferes with a working part that should be addressed.

Years ago we cleaned a boat for delivery, a couple days after the delivery we were told the customer was not happy because there was some fiberglass particles in a side storage compartment that probablly dislodged when the boat was trailed to it's destination.

They stated it ruined their boating experience. Ruined. Over dramatic much?

The thing I find interesting is the waste, I also have lots of perfectly good vinyl and upholstery the factory uses to wrap things for shipping.

Right now, at least in the boating industry, they are still trying to get product to dealers as fast as possible so things aren't quite as perfect as they were a couple years ago. I suspect that will change as soon as the breakneck pace gets back to normal but over all in the 30 years I've been doing this the factories and dealers do a pretty good job of cleaning up after themselves.

[Country Road]

Originally Posted by Stevens10

You said what I didn't on my earlier post, since the bean counters took over the world the engineers are no longer allowed the time to get the design right, the purchasing people cannot buy the quality components, but must buy on price only, and the managers cannot make the labor force stop and do it right, because it will take too long!
Jay Stevens, PE

I’m thinking that it’s the time we’re living in. The aged veterans who put these things together will give you a final product that is better quality or at least similar to yesteryear.

The younger class of workers you hire think it’s funny. I suppose we’ll have to live with it. Management could deal with it and correct it but most probably don’t care or don’t know better themselves. Go figure.