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Old 10-07-2016, 09:30 AM   #1
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New Cornerstone in Paint Shop Already???

We got the call that our Brand new CS had arrived and was ready to pick up... Three days later we arrived to see our coach.
The detailing work left a lot to be desired...wax residue on joints, gaskets, door edges, etc. along with several fish eyes, trash and previous "touch-ups" to chips and/or scratches found in the paint! Furthermore, there were two obvious dents in the passenger side rear panel and a screw penetrating through the front generator door that fractured the beautiful finish:mad
And this was just on the outside. Inside there were nails in the trim work that were extending up to a 1/4" and had not been finished with a nail set, along with silicone residue dried on nearly every countertop. Unfortunately, we really haven't even had time to go over the unit, much less test all the appliances, as our first day was spent doing our customer checklist items and learning the "how-to"s. On the second morning we were told we needed to evacuate our coach as it would need to go to the paint shop for repairs At this point we have Not even been able to test drive it; so crossing our fingers, that when that time comes, we will not find anything else!

Now, to be fair, the dealer is accepting full responsibility, including putting us up in a local motel, and IS taking care of all these issues. My question is...
(Bearing in mind I am now looking at my BRAND NEW half a million dollar coach with bondo patches as it enters the paint shop)

Is this typical when you picked up your coach? What repairs did you have done at that time?
Would you accept this coach, or request another one? I should add that while we have given them a cashiers check for over 100K, we have not signed the final acceptance paper stating we are taking the unit AS IS; a point brought up by their finance man this morning when he called to say " as we were nearing the three day mark (although we haven't been here 48 hours), he REALLY needed us to come sign these papers so he could get their money"
Perhaps dealers QC department catches all this before the buyer arrives and you wouldn't know that it went back into the paint booth with bondo etc. work done before you ever got there, and resolved the problem. Obviously knowing all this now, we are very concerned if this may be the start of (or omen to...) further issues to come? We would appreciate your opinions and ask WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
Thank You.
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Old 10-07-2016, 09:46 AM   #2
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As a future owner...

...I would be interested in knowing who you purchased from?

Doesn't sound like the usual quality product coming out of Middlebury.

I would be very unhappy at this point with the fit and finish you described but would be interested in hearing from other recent buyers about their experience.

Hope it all works out.

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Old 10-07-2016, 09:47 AM   #3
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It's really hard to reject it because of all the extra time & money it will take. But for that kind of coach maybe you should
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Old 10-07-2016, 09:57 AM   #4
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I would not sign anything until you are 100% satisfied with the unit... Once you sign, its all yours...

This is very odd... of all my reading of the Entegra Coach forum, I've never heard one as bad as this... I would seriously get ahold of someone at Entegra before I moved forward on any signatures...

Edit: if you have the ability to, I would strongly recommend you turn off your "emotional" side and turn on your "business" side
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:00 AM   #5
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I'm sure a lot of coaches come in with flaws that are corrected before buyers see them . Being as you are already unsatisfied with its appearance I definitely would not be signing any papers accepting it as is. I would have to be totally satisfied. My anthem had a couple of nicks that were repaired (not just touched up) and you would never know they were there. Also had the compound residue in nooks and crannies. And still do. Lot of tedious work to get all of it. As far as this being an omen of bad things to come, just remember you've got two year warranty to get the bugs worked out. (And there will be bugs, trust me)
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:06 AM   #6
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Having seen the QC process currently implemented at the factory last week, and the dramatically improved processes over the last 1.5 years, this really surprises me...that such issues would make it through their process. But I acknowledge it can happen and is certainly disappointing. Wax build ups could occur at the dealership as they are paid to detail it after the trip to your dealership.

Not knowing who your dealership is (some are better at acknowledging and fixing), I would certainly have a discussion with your regional sales rep at Middlebury at the factory...maybe they can assure that the coach you sign for is made perfect. I would not sign any further paperwork until it is so. That said, I am confident that Entegra sales and customer service will make it right. JMHO
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:28 AM   #7
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We certainly understand there will be bugs, but...not in the paint
Part of our hesitance at this point is due in part to a rig we bought back in 2006. After two years of researching, we custom ordered our new Excel 5th wheel; which was one of the best 5th wheels on the market at the time. Just shy of 90K at the time, when it arrived, there were so many issues found at delivery, that the manufacturer picked it up and returned it 3 MONTHS later "all repaired". Two years later as warranty was running out , our repair file at our local dealer was over 2" thick! The owner of Peterson Industries (Excel) arrived at our shop and agreed to replace the entire unit with a 2009 model. It was again custom made for us, but this time on their dollar. Happy to say we never had any issues With it since. We just don't want this to be the "lemon" we had with the original Excel. And the way things are starting, we are NERVOUS!
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:32 AM   #8
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After having bought 2 new coaches, I can testify that once you "Sign the papers" your leverage evaporates, and any further satisfaction is provided at the dealers' convenience.

In other words, sign when you're ready to drive the coach off, in "As-Is" condition.

If they pressure you to accept a partially satisfactory coach, ask if they would be satisfied with a payment proportional to the completion of the coach. I seriously doubt it.

If you want to talk to someone from Entegra who is actually very helpful and can get things done, call Joyce Skinner.

joyce_skinner@jayco.com

Cell (574) 361-6006

Factory (800) 517-9137

Regarding what is acceptable, that is entirely your call. Even as nice as EC builds a coach, there are small issues.

Regarding the paint work, our 2017 paint work isn't what they were producing just a couple of years ago.

-Matt
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:35 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhB View Post
...I would be interested in knowing who you purchased from?

Doesn't sound like the usual quality product coming out of Middlebury.

I would be very unhappy at this point with the fit and finish you described but would be interested in hearing from other recent buyers about their experience.

Hope it all works out.

PhB
Other than the poor detailing, I don't feel the dealer is responsible, nor should shoulder the blame for the fish eyes, trash in paint, screw through generator door, etc. this is how it was received from ENtegra. The dealer has been very cooperative in taking care of the repairs...it's just disheartening to know we are starting with these issues. I wish they had taken care of them before we saw it this way.
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:54 AM   #10
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I really think it important that you have a discussion with the folks at Entegra. They need to know what made it through their QC (they are pretty proud of the advances they have made and I am proud to see the changes). That said, I have had paint issue on both my Entegras, so it does happen. On my 13 Anthem, it looked like Zorro made his mark in one place when the part of metal flake was in the bright sunshine. The paint on these coaches is pretty complicated these days, and I am not surprised when a coach goes out that they missed something. OTOH, don't see many posts here where folks have had major issues from the factory. That's why I suggest you interact with Entegra Sales and/or Customer Service. Sounds like maybe you're dealer might be NIRVC, but whether they, or one of the other dealers, I am sure that they and Entegra will make it right...but I'd suggest using your phone to Entegra about your disappointment, rather than hoping they read this in the forum (although they do read stuff here). let them help you get there and be happy with your coach. They are really good folks
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Old 10-07-2016, 10:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&S Norrell View Post
Other than the poor detailing, I don't feel the dealer is responsible, nor should shoulder the blame for the fish eyes, trash in paint, screw through generator door, etc. this is how it was received from ENtegra. The dealer has been very cooperative in taking care of the repairs...it's just disheartening to know we are starting with these issues. I wish they had taken care of them before we saw it this way.
That is very generous of you... But....

If you saw it... they saw it.. and to make you come down and try to "peddle" it off to you is where they are responsible... they should have contacted you, let you know they didn't find the condition acceptable and they are working with Entegra to make it right before you make the trip to pick it up...

I'm assuming if they put you up in a hotel, you traveled a fair amount of distance... and to me... that is wrong...
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Old 10-07-2016, 11:15 AM   #12
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Sue

Since your address is noted to be Texas, I am assuming that you bought the coach either from Motor Home Specialist or from National InDoor (although I have been told there is a small dealer someplace like Lubbock). The dealer is important as some have exceptional reputations (National indoor) and others terrible service capabilities ( I don't know anything about the small dealer in Texas) but the reason that I am bringing this up is that dealers vary widely in their ability to make repairs as they are the most likely group to lead the way.

From what you say, it appears these problems are the legal responsibility arena of Middlebury as the problems appear to be in construction and factory processing. I have had some similar problem from the factory but that was delivery 18 months ago and BEFORE the improvement in QC, so all of this is not good to read. I would suggest you talk to Tadd (President of EC) or Joyce and start talking to them about the situation. I would not sign anything until you have a 3-way understanding with dealer, Entegra, and you.

You may have to abandon the coach or threaten to do same to get some attention.

Gary
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Old 10-07-2016, 11:21 AM   #13
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When a dealer takes delivery of a coach they are allowed to hold it for set period of time (usually five business days) before it must be purchased, either by the new owner (like in your case) or by the dealership itself. This is called "flooring", or the cost of putting the coach on the salesroom floor. Dealerships have large revolving loan accounts with banks to pay for flooring, and of course they have to pay interest. They are considered a good risk because they are established large businesses and the collateral is a brand new coach, so they get good rates.

But it still costs them...THAT is why they are pressuring you to sign.

I agree with the folks on the forum, the condition of the coach is unacceptable and the business practice is unacceptable. Next time they pressure you to sign, I would politely tell them "no", and that you will sign when you are satisfied with the condition of the coach, and I would also politely suggest that they call Entegra and ask them to participate in the flooring cost until the dealer can take adequate time to fix the problems.

The more you stretch them out, the more it costs them, the higher up the food chain the problem will go, and the more anxious they will be to make the coach right. Visit your coach once a day to inquire, enjoy the hotel, take in a ball game, a movie, or a show and let them worry.

The best comment in this thread is this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by oakcreekeric View Post
Edit: if you have the ability to, I would strongly recommend you turn off your "emotional" side and turn on your "business" side
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Old 10-07-2016, 11:22 AM   #14
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We had a similar situation with a few mechanical problems thrown in. After giving the dealer 30 days to correct the problems, they made it worse so we refused delivery. The MH was returned to Entegra for 3 months. As much as they tried and they have bent over backwards on this coach. But I am sorry I did accept it. Most of my major problems have been vendor items, just to many on this one coach. We are still trying to fix a terrible wind noise in the door. Another vendor item. I am probably 1 in a 1000, but just my experience. Entegra does build a great coach as most will agree to.

Personally, I wouldn't make a decision until after a long test drive. Check for front end handling and wind noises.
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