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Old 08-21-2021, 12:00 PM   #197
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Jerry, Sarge is right and you are right. The derate occurs because the sensor fails. I don’t know whether it also stops the DEF doser and injector from doing their thing. But getting a DEF delete definitely stops the DEF injection. That’s what it does, so yes, if you bought a DEF delete job you would be busted at the first inspection. However, the DEF works on NOx, not soot, so your exhaust pipe would not be filled with soot. That’s the DPF’s job and is not connected at all with the SCR (DEF) system.
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Old 08-21-2021, 12:36 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Archer2 View Post
Jerry, Sarge is right and you are right. The derate occurs because the sensor fails. I donít know whether it also stops the DEF doser and injector from doing their thing. But getting a DEF delete definitely stops the DEF injection. Thatís what it does, so yes, if you bought a DEF delete job you would be busted at the first inspection. However, the DEF works on NOx, not soot, so your exhaust pipe would not be filled with soot. Thatís the DPFís job and is not connected at all with the SCR (DEF) system.
Ok thanks, I was under the impression it only stopped the derate, but didnít stop the operation.
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Old 08-21-2021, 12:40 PM   #199
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I am talking about a disconnected or defeated system. Not one that merely thinks it empty. If my coach was to have the Def system defeated the tail pipe would be black in days. As of right now it's still clean with over 40,000 miles on it.
Def doesnít keep your tail pipe clean. DPF keeps that clean. DEF converts NOX to nitrogen and water after the DPF.
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Old 08-21-2021, 12:40 PM   #200
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I didn't say it couldn't be done. The post stated with Cummins software, if I understood it correctly. https://www.cummins.com/parts-and-se...ervices/insite I received the information first hand that it cannot be done with Cummins software supplied to Cummins shops.
Cummins shops can upload the emergency vehicle exemption software (firmware?) so that might be what they are selling in Canada.
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Old 08-21-2021, 12:48 PM   #201
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Cummins shops can upload the emergency vehicle exemption software (firmware?) so that might be what they are selling in Canada.
I don't live in Canada and do business with Cummins USA. Cummins Ft Myers cannot over write de-rate codes, they've tried. They would love to know of a work around that could be done with Cummins equipment. They have never mentioned emergency vehicle programming, so maybe the average tech at Cummins is not even aware of it.
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Old 08-21-2021, 12:51 PM   #202
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DEF system

Iíve been following this DEF issue closely. Iím the second owner of our 2018 Anthem. I have called Spartan to confirm that my DEF head is original and it is. I have 60,000 miles now and going strong. However, the last couple trips I have noticed the four green square gauge always shows full, even when I can visually see the tank is at half. Does anyone know if this is a concern. Am I getting close to a failure? Or just keep rollin?
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Old 08-21-2021, 01:00 PM   #203
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Iíve been following this DEF issue closely. Iím the second owner of our 2018 Anthem. I have called Spartan to confirm that my DEF head is original and it is. I have 60,000 miles now and going strong. However, the last couple trips I have noticed the four green square gauge always shows full, even when I can visually see the tank is at half. Does anyone know if this is a concern. Am I getting close to a failure? Or just keep rollin?
That is anyone's guess, but the DEF level sensor apparently is not working. As long as it doesn't show empty, it won't de-rate, but could that change, who knows? Spartan will not consider a replacement until the de-rate codes are showing.
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Old 08-21-2021, 01:00 PM   #204
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I don't live in Canada and do business with Cummins USA. Cummins Ft Myers cannot over write de-rate codes, they've tried. They would love to know of a work around that could be done with Cummins equipment. They have never mentioned emergency vehicle programming, so maybe the average tech at Cummins is not even aware of it.
I posted the Cummins page on it a few days ago on one of these threads - it’s something they can do, but as you said, the average tech either doesn’t know, wouldn’t think about it, or is well aware that it’s completely forbidden. So it makes sense that it wouldn’t come up in conversation, but they can physically do it, and that may be what they are selling in Canada, since they can do it over the internet. Just a guess.
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Old 08-21-2021, 01:06 PM   #205
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Found it

https://www.cummins.com/engines/fire...rate-exemption

“In 2012, the EPA released a regulatory announcement and Direct Final Rule (DFR) outlining a voluntary program that allows engine manufacturers flexibility to provide relief to emergency vehicles such as ambulances and fire trucks so they would no longer face vehicle speed or engine power disruptions related to their diesel emissions control systems. Cummins worked alongside EPA and other stakeholders to best understand the needs of our customers as we defined and implemented our solution.

A new engine calibration is now available for 2013 diesel engines with emergency vehicle ratings that eliminates all emissions related vehicle speed or engine torque derates. Following are more details on the new 2013 engine calibration for fire and emergency vehicles and what it means for customers with EPA 2013 engines and engines built prior to 2013.“

So Cummins can “work alongside EPA and other stakeholders” (apparently we aren’t stake holders) to provide relieve, temporary or otherwise. They simply won’t.
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Old 08-21-2021, 04:03 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by TeamB View Post
Iíve been following this DEF issue closely. Iím the second owner of our 2018 Anthem. I have called Spartan to confirm that my DEF head is original and it is. I have 60,000 miles now and going strong. However, the last couple trips I have noticed the four green square gauge always shows full, even when I can visually see the tank is at half. Does anyone know if this is a concern. Am I getting close to a failure? Or just keep rollin?
When my sensor failed I was about 150 miles into a 290 mile trip. Three different lights went off on the dash display, and the def fuel gauge would sweep from empty to full, and back to empty. (the tank was about 3/4 full)

I kept driving, not wanting to pull over. The alarms would sound for 5 minutes, then go silent. When the dash lights went off, the gauge returned to normal. After about 2 minutes the whole process started over again.

So yes, my guess is that if your gauge is not reading correctly, a failure is in your near future. The sensor level is an integral part of the sensor functions.
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Old 08-21-2021, 04:31 PM   #207
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Cummins shops can upload the emergency vehicle exemption software (firmware?) so that might be what they are selling in Canada.
My understanding is that in order for the EV Calibration to be done requires extensive documentation including the Engine Serial Number which has to match up with the correct VIN. And it cannot be done with the level of access available at a normal dealer level. It requires additional security (passwords) to download to an INSITE tool and then yet a separate password to be able to upload the calibration to a (specific) ECM.
So, yeah I guess you could say that theoretically a technician could do it but unless the documentation checked out 6 ways from Sunday I doubt the average tech would ever to do it as a practical matter.
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Old 08-28-2021, 09:06 AM   #208
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DEF level problem

I have followed this issue and had a failure last year that required a new DEF head on my 2015 Tiffin Bus. My problem was the level sensor (it was a ultras onic sensor that had a 3 wire plug). The new head had a fioat type level sensor with a mating 3 wire plug with only 2 of the pins used. I tested the 2 wires with a ohm meter and found that at approx mid position on the float sensor the resistor ohm reading was 300 ohms. so I purchased a 300 0hm 100 watt resisror (probably much larger than necessary) and connected it to the old 3 wire connector from the old head unit. When I plugged it in for a test, the gauge reads half tank on the def gauge. I posted a pic of all this last year. I have seen a photo of a head for a newer coach and it looked like it had a additional component that I dont reconize so dont know if it might measure the quality of the def and cause a fault. ( buy the way this head I had the issue with is from shaw industries). In reading today on this issue several postings were discussing temp problems with the def and ??? Looks like a manual valve would be smart. My head unit did have a temp probe that the resistance of did change with putting heat to it. It would be nice to know more than we know about all of this system???
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