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Old 09-11-2021, 07:43 AM   #29
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They’ll keep making these coaches as long as people keep buying them. They look great at the dealership but not so good on a drop deck being towed

If GM, Ford or Ram had the same problem, they’d be forced by the end user to resolve the issue quickly. When the coach manufacturers see a loss in sales the correction will happen
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Old 09-11-2021, 10:26 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by dave&ginny View Post
They’ll keep making these coaches as long as people keep buying them. They look great at the dealership but not so good on a drop deck being towed

If GM, Ford or Ram had the same problem, they’d be forced by the end user to resolve the issue quickly. When the coach manufacturers see a loss in sales the correction will happen

Maybe its started. They lost me. I'll post about my remodel when complete.
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Old 09-15-2021, 07:18 AM   #31
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there are no pictures below and the link just goes to their site with no mention of the codes
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Old 09-15-2021, 10:08 AM   #32
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there are no pictures below and the link just goes to their site with no mention of the codes
Hi Rich,

I'm a little unclear regarding which link you're referring to and what pictures you're trying to see.

IF the link that isn't working for you is this: https://www.cummins.com/sites/defaul...%204971518.pdf

Then, the pictured associated with that link are these:

Click on image to enlarge.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Engine Lamp Identification Guide.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	193.4 KB
ID:	343146

Click on image to enlarge.
Click image for larger version

Name:	Four Stages of DEF Related Warnings.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	116.3 KB
ID:	343147

If those aren't the pictures you're looking for, in the memorable words of Emily Litella, "Nevermind!"

Take care,
Stu
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Old 09-16-2021, 07:15 AM   #33
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Hershey Show

We attended the Hershey show yesterday (Wed the 15th) First stop was the Spartan booth where they had a 2021 Cornerstone chassis, dressed up in the blue and white paint. NO ONE at the booth would engage with me in regards to the DEF problem. They seemed to just shrug it off as not a big deal. They said after this show the chassis would be painted black and shipped to build a Cornerstone on it.
Only one manufacturer rep (TIFFIN) admitted he has not seen such poor quality across the board in RV'S in a very long time.
Surprised at how the sales booths at many class A reps were at times full of people signing. Who knows when they will receive their rigs, and what the quality of the build will be.
Just my observations.
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Old 09-16-2021, 06:49 PM   #34
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Being the optimist that I am about human nature. It would seem that all the emails, phone calls and written letters to govt. and industry leaders had no influence on said leaders to finally get some resolution to the DEF problem. I still won't upgrade my 2006 Tiffin Phaeton DP with a Cat C7. Because "it aint over till it's over" and let's see how long it takes to get all the coaches with this DEF crap fixed and who is going to pay for it.
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Old 09-18-2021, 04:29 PM   #35
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DEF Sensor Failure Complaints

Here's a summary of DEF Complaints that have been submitted to the NHTSA website as of 17 September 2021. Vehicles between 2016 and 2021 (as of 17SEPT2021) were reviewed.

Complaints on Class A motorhomes totaled 67. They were on Entegra, Newmar Winnebago and Tiffin units.

Complaints on Super C motorhomes were 2. They were on Nexus and Jayco.

Complaints on Over the road semi's were 4. They were on Freightliner, Peterbilt and International.

Complaints on Fire Trucks were 3. Imagine heading to a house fire and your truck slows to 5mph or stops?! These were on Pierce Sabers.

Also reviewed DEF complaints on diesel pickups, Mercedes Benz Sprinters, Land Rover and Jeep for the same time period as above.

There were 27 pickup truck complaints for DEF failure issues. These were on Chevy (5), Ram (10), Ford (5), Nissan (4) and GMC (3) trucks. The remaining vehicles totaled 3 complaints.

The above is what I could find on the NHTSA site regarding DEF sensor failures.

If there are more failures happening than what was found, they are not being reported.
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Old 09-18-2021, 04:34 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by fatboy4909 View Post
Here's a summary of DEF Complaints that have been submitted to the NHTSA website as of 17 September 2021. Vehicles between 2016 and 2021 (as of 17SEPT2021) were reviewed.

Complaints on Class A motorhomes totaled 67. They were on Entegra, Newmar Winnebago and Tiffin units.

Complaints on Super C motorhomes were 2. They were on Nexus and Jayco.

Complaints on Over the road semi's were 4. They were on Freightliner, Peterbilt and International.

Complaints on Fire Trucks were 3. Imagine heading to a house fire and your truck slows to 5mph or stops?! These were on Pierce Sabers.

Also reviewed DEF complaints on diesel pickups, Mercedes Benz Sprinters, Land Rover and Jeep for the same time period as above.

There were 27 pickup truck complaints for DEF failure issues. These were on Chevy (5), Ram (10), Ford (5), Nissan (4) and GMC (3) trucks. The remaining vehicles totaled 3 complaints.

The above is what I could find on the NHTSA site regarding DEF sensor failures.

If there are more failures happening than what was found, they are not being reported.
We have no one to blame but ourselves. There were a hell of a lot more complaints filed on this one forum than with the NHTSA, Shame on us!!! No wonder no corrective action is being taken. There will be those that will have DEF number 2 fail and wonder why?
I guess delaminated windows are more important, I have received two NHTSA recalls on my 21 for delaminated windows. Guess more complaints have been filed about those.
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Old 09-18-2021, 06:25 PM   #37
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We have no one to blame but ourselves. There were a hell of a lot more complaints filed on this one forum than with the NHTSA, Shame on us!!! No wonder no corrective action is being taken. There will be those that will have DEF number 2 fail and wonder why?
I guess delaminated windows are more important, I have received two NHTSA recalls on my 21 for delaminated windows. Guess more complaints have been filed about those.
Chuck,
Part of the problem I ran into when filling was it would not accept my vin. So I need to call and have not gotten to the point in my daily life in the last week to find 30 or so min to call the guberment and stay on hold. My guess is that the truckers don't even or have not been told to file the compliant. Sad part is that I personally know of over a 100 RV's and over 200 trucks that have been down due to DEF head. I know when I have asked truck drivers if they have filed a compliant it has been a no answer. Plus the fact that the window manufacture is not nearly as important to not piss off as Paccar, Freightliner, Cummins, Mack and Volvo. Those are companies that with a phone call stop the complaints.
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Old 09-19-2021, 06:39 AM   #38
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Chuck,
Part of the problem I ran into when filling was it would not accept my vin. So I need to call and have not gotten to the point in my daily life in the last week to find 30 or so min to call the guberment and stay on hold. My guess is that the truckers don't even or have not been told to file the compliant. Sad part is that I personally know of over a 100 RV's and over 200 trucks that have been down due to DEF head. I know when I have asked truck drivers if they have filed a compliant it has been a no answer. Plus the fact that the window manufacture is not nearly as important to not piss off as Paccar, Freightliner, Cummins, Mack and Volvo. Those are companies that with a phone call stop the complaints.
This is the problem with dealing with our govt. At all levels they make it so hard to file complaints that it forces people to give up. Thereby making the problem seem small. My experience is to just be a PIA and they finally get the message. Squeaky wheel syndrome.
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Old 09-19-2021, 07:51 AM   #39
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I was fortunate, I was able to file with the NHTSA with the VIN# on my 19 and the 21. From being able to get signed up with my VIN I am also on the email list for recalls on the 21 VIN #. It is a shame others had a problem filing. From the post by Fatboy4909, it looks like it's a mute point now, not enough filed. I am still shaking my head on how windows, a cosmetic items, are being recalled and not the DEF sensors. It would sure be interesting to find out how that happened.
I guess it is wait for a Cummins over write code to be approved "if" there is a DEF head shortage again. Build a DEF sensor Emulator, or for those uniformed from the forums, continue on with the next generation of faulty DEF heads. I have more faith in faulty DEF heads than any type of NHTSA recall or intervention. JMO
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Old 09-19-2021, 08:04 AM   #40
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I am still shaking my head on how windows, a cosmetic items, are being recalled and not the DEF sensors. It would sure be interesting to find out how that happened.
JMO

Since number of DEF head complaints were make I wonder what the count is for the pop out window is?
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Old 09-19-2021, 08:23 AM   #41
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Since number of DEF head complaints were make I wonder what the count is for the pop out window is?
Just doesn't seem possible does it? Yet, I received an email on the recall and two first class mail from the NHTSA, total of 3 notices for windows. I can't believe people went though the trouble to file on windows and not DEF sensors. The window delamination has been on going since 2014 with out a recall until current model years. Oh well at least my windows age covered for life now.
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Old 09-19-2021, 09:44 AM   #42
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I was fortunate, I was able to file with the NHTSA with the VIN# on my 19 and the 21. From being able to get signed up with my VIN I am also on the email list for recalls on the 21 VIN #. It is a shame others had a problem filing. From the post by Fatboy4909, it looks like it's a mute point now, not enough filed. I am still shaking my head on how windows, a cosmetic items, are being recalled and not the DEF sensors. It would sure be interesting to find out how that happened.
I guess it is wait for a Cummins over write code to be approved "if" there is a DEF head shortage again. Build a DEF sensor Emulator, or for those uniformed from the forums, continue on with the next generation of faulty DEF heads. I have more faith in faulty DEF heads than any type of NHTSA recall or intervention. JMO

It’s absolutely crazy! The NHTSA and the Rv builders must think alike. More concerned for glitz and glitter than they are about the ability to safely drive a vehicle.

Reliability is now a fantasy for RV owners. My “classic” has never looked so good.
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