NIRVC - Comments and Thoughts

[BrettDavis]

Originally Posted by bevandtomH

I don’t think Brett minds the “public” criticism and would hazard to guess he welcomes the input in any manner it is delivered.
Measuring customer temperature was always the first thing that came up in management when we would build annual customer reviews…”How are we doing?”

Everyone within the organization has, or should have a vested interest in that intercept. Made it easier to drill down to those occurrences as to the “what and why” so you can build to the “how to” in order to correct this problem at hand. Whether it is a one off, or a potential trend.
We spent years building a Kaizen model to address workflow accountability. I think NIRVC is incorporating something similar, or sounds like it may be similar.
With their growth, come the pains.

It’s important to reach out to your NIRVC dealer and express your dissatisfaction in whatever it may be. We all will benefit from their learnings.

Good morning Tom,

I wanted to say THANK YOU for your post. You really nailed it!

You are correct, we consider all feedback to be a gift, regardless of how we received it. It makes no difference to us if we received the feedback in person, in a phone call, a text, an email, a customer survey response, or a post on social media. We address, correct, and resolve them all in the same manner. We certainly don’t give one method of delivery priority over another. Well, except for Facebook. Several of my managers, as well as myself, have never had a Facebook account, so we don’t see those posts. And, with most people using some kind of a handle on social media, it makes resolving any issues very difficult, as we can’t always make out who our customer is from their handle.

Tom, the second paragraph of your post is spot on in how we approach all feedback.

1. Was it within our control? For example, we didn’t build, paint, or warranty the coach. However, we do repair, repaint, service, clean, and store coaches. All of these activities we do control.

2. If it was within our control, why did we fail? Was it an issue in our planning, with our people, or in our processes?

Your third paragraph nailed the workflow system our IT department has been building for four years now, and has been implementing by module within our company. When fully implemented, our Service System will provide complete transparency to our customers, plus hold all parties/companies up and down the repair chain accountable.

Our team and I have strapped on our helmets as we prepare for what will be both a pivotal, and very challenging year for our Company in 2023. I wish there was a way around 2023 to 2024, but unfortunately, our only way to 2024 is to go through 2023. Our team is prepared for more negative posts like what I’ve read in this thread next year, because we are introducing, or really tackling three major undertakings in 2023. To my knowledge, not a single one of these undertakings has ever been attempted in this industry before. Yes, we will drop a lot of balls in 2023! And, as I previously mentioned, we will address, correct, and resolve every single one of them. However, for the sake of our managers, all of whom follow this forum, I kindly ask for you to post about our successes along with our failings as we iterate and refine. Change is always hard, and keeping morale up during radical change is even harder.

In 2023 we will:

1. Fully implement our new Service System (work flow), and provide our customers with unrestricted access into our system so they can see what we are seeing in real time. This will also include letting customers schedule their own appointments online.

2. Starting 1/2/2023 in both our Lewisville and Atlanta facilities, we will be open for service 7 days a week, 12 hours per day. Our remaining facilities will convert to this schedule during the balance of 2023.

3. We will make public our standards. We can’t improve quality without measuring it, and we can’t measure it without a standard. FYI, we filmed a video introducing our Paint Standards last week. This video will be uploaded to our YouTube channel as soon as the videographer completes his editing, and it will be downloadable by logging into our website. We will follow our Paint Standards with our Build and Quality Standards, and so on. These are the standards we inspect to, we repair to, and you can hold us accountable to. It’s all part, and parcel to trying to elevate the RV industry by educating the consumer, and through transparency arming the consumer with information, so the consumer can hold all of us in the industry accountable with their feet and their wallets.

Believe me, we have brainstormed solutions and outcomes for every scenario we could imagine, but at the end of the day, we still don’t know what we don’t know. No one has ever traveled this road before in this industry. When I think of all the opportunities for us dropping balls next year it becomes mind numbing.

Gosh, here’s a peek into the magnitude of just one of the three undertakings kicking off 1/1/2023. As a result of the unimaginable friction the industry imposes on making a single warranty repair (manufacturer or ESP), it currently takes 6 coaches on the ground to feed just one technician. His 6 coaches are in varying stages of diagnoses, submitting for authorization, waiting for approval, handling the denials, ordering parts, waiting for the shipping of parts, etc. And, it takes and additional 1.1 “Full Time Equivalents” just to support and keep that Technician turning wrenches (parts, warranty, Advisors, Assistant Advisors, receiving, shipping, QC, etc). Now, imagine a Blue Team comprised of 250 technicians, parts staff, warranty staff, Service Advisors, Assistant Service Advisors, Wash & Detail, QC, etc. passing off 840 coaches (each one with a list of repairs) to their counterpart the Gold Team midweek. And, then repeating the handoff again 3 or 4 days later, and again, and again, throughout an entire year. Waiting on authorizations and parts is a killer, and something I expect the transparency of our new system will relegate to the history books. Now, I’ve only mentioned Service. I haven’t even touched on our other departments such as Paint & Body, Storage, Sales, etc., all of whom must coordinate with each other in order to turn coaches we’re performing service, or repairs, or collision work on, all while making certain our hamburger tastes the same at all our locations. Yes, a workflow system was a must for NIRVC!

As a company, NIRVC has come to grips with what the year 2023 will entail for us, and all we can do is remain maniacally focused on iterating, and not repeating the same mistake twice. And, plead for your patience as we continue to work through our growing pains. May they never end.🤞

I know it is the season to be thankful, but I want to emphasis how truly thankful, and grateful we are for all the support, and business you have entrusted to our company over all these years. Every time I take a moment to reflect back over the past 13 years next month, it is very humbling, and makes me teary eyed every single time. Thank you!

I wish all of you, and your families a Very Happy Thanksgiving!

Brett

[Wil_H]

Thank you, Brett for this detailed look behind the scenes. This is exactly why we are NIRVC customers for life.
Wishing you and your family the best this holiday season!

[USMCRET]

God bless you and your whole team, Brett.

[brobox]

Brett, another excellent explanation of how NIRVC deals with customers and what is being done to correct any problems. And as you have said many time before, the avenues are always open to communicate with you, good or bad experiences.
For those that have not experienced a dealer that goes out of their way to avoid all communications with customers after the sale, as well as the worst service of any RV dealership in the country, you are very fortunate. Those that have experienced those dealers should feel blessed when Brett reaches out personally, or publicly as he has here. I am still waiting for the return call from my previous dealer two Entegras ago.

[Ambetter]

Brett Davis is the real deal and one of the most stand up men I know. Everything they’re putting in place will no doubt improve the process. However, when it comes to the person doing the actual work there is a disconnect with the rest of the operation. You shouldn’t have to make numerous trips and pay several thousand dollars to get shoddy work. There needs to be something put in place at the bottom end to assure the job is done correctly the first time. Our time and dollars for going back and forth to dealer for same issue is inexcusable.
There always seems to be time to do it over, but not enough time to do it right.

[TomandGloria]

Originally Posted by Ambetter

Brett Davis is the real deal and one of the most stand up men I know. Everything they’re putting in place will no doubt improve the process. However, when it comes to the person doing the actual work there is a disconnect with the rest of the operation. You shouldn’t have to make numerous trips and pay several thousand dollars to get shoddy work. There needs to be something put in place at the bottom end to assure the job is done correctly the first time. Our time and dollars for going back and forth to dealer for same issue is inexcusable.
There always seems to be time to do it over, but not enough time to do it right.

That was my point too. However, I feel strong enough and respect Brett that I owe him a conversation one on one, and not public. It’s easy to complain, but unless you offer potential solutions, then you ate not helping to solve the problem.

I’m waiting for my motorhome to be returned before I approach Brett with the issues and recommendations for him to consider for future considerations.

[777 Driver]

Originally Posted by TomandGloria

That was my point too. However, I feel strong enough and respect Brett that I owe him a conversation one on one, and not public. It’s easy to complain, but unless you offer potential solutions, then you ate not helping to solve the problem.

It was more than 40 years ago, on my way to my first squadron, that the Navy sent me to a few schools. One was SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape); a once-in-a-lifetime experience where I received some "training" that I later learned was considered to be "torture". By that time in the training experience, I was dehydrated enough to be glad for an opportunity to gulp a little water.

One of the others, in a classroom setting, was a little more civilized training course; Leadership & Management training for Junior Officers. One of the concepts there was that praise works best in a public environment (you've all seen those MOH ceremonies in the White House right?) and counsel works best in private (you haven't seen any of those on TV, have you?). IF you've been a participant in any of those counseling sessions, I hope that it proved to be a beneficial experience for both.

Although there may be some benefit from public airing of grievances, I've always been inclind to conduct grievnce bearing in private while the process plays out. There may be a time when public sharing is appropriate, IMHO, that's very, very late in the process.

Take care,
Stu

[TomandGloria]

Originally Posted by 777 Driver

It was more than 40 years ago, on my way to my first squadron, that the Navy sent me to a few schools. One was SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape); a once-in-a-lifetime experience where I received some "training" that I later learned was considered to be "torture". By that time in the training experience, I was dehydrated enough to be glad for an opportunity to gulp a little water.

One of the others, in a classroom setting, was a little more civilized training course; Leadership & Management training for Junior Officers. One of the concepts there was that praise works best in a public environment (you've all seen those MOH ceremonies in the White House right?) and counsel works best in private (you haven't seen any of those on TV, have you?). IF you've been a participant in any of those counseling sessions, I hope that it proved to be a beneficial experience for both.

Although there may be some benefit from public airing of grievances, I've always been inclind to conduct grievnce bearing in private while the process plays out. There may be a time when public sharing is appropriate, IMHO, that's very, very late in the process.

Take care,
Stu

Thank you Stu. Though I was Army, sounds like you and I were trained by the same type of leaders during the same time frame.

I had a successful career living by that philosophy. No reason to think it should be done differently.

Tom

[dcphil_98]

It must be a military thing (retired USAF) but the principle of praise in public and criticze in private is always appropriate. If I have an issuse with the tech I talk with the tech. Same with the service writer or parts people. I stay engaged and do everything i can to "help them succeed." There have been a few instantances where I have had discussions with NIRVC management, but not many.

Now we need to hear from a Marine. Is Stew listening?

[New2road]

Brett,

Very excited for you and your team!

As a good leader, admitting to a certain amount of trepidation shows your team your human side while confirming to them your determination to complete the task.

You have provided the vision, developed the tools, trained the team, and made the case for change. Trust your people to do the right things, provide the forceful backup were needed and corrective counseling were appropriate.

A long time ago, I shared a mantra we Submariners lived by. You fight like you trained. Let me share two others I observed used by one of the most successful teams in the US Military (US Navy SEALS)

The Only easy day was yesterday and You are never out of the fight

Best wishes for success!

j

[Bill Reith]

Originally Posted by Ambetter

Brett Davis is the real deal and one of the most stand up men I know. Everything they’re putting in place will no doubt improve the process. However, when it comes to the person doing the actual work there is a disconnect with the rest of the operation. You shouldn’t have to make numerous trips and pay several thousand dollars to get shoddy work. There needs to be something put in place at the bottom end to assure the job is done correctly the first time. Our time and dollars for going back and forth to dealer for same issue is inexcusable.
There always seems to be time to do it over, but not enough time to do it right.

Good morning Ambetter,

As Brett mentioned in his post, we consider feedback a gift, and go to great lengths to try and make things right whenever we drop the ball. It is difficult for us to resolve issues off the forum when going by one another's handles, and not pertinent customer information.

If you don't mind, please give me a call to discuss your experience. As COO of National Indoor RV Centers, I am over all our service operations and would love the opportunity to make things right by you. You may contact me on my personal cell phone 414-416-8807 at your earliest convenience.

Sincerely,
Bill Reith

[Marcosdad]

Originally Posted by dcphil_98

It must be a military thing (retired USAF) but the principle of praise in public and criticze in private is always appropriate. If I have an issuse with the tech I talk with the tech. Same with the service writer or parts people. I stay engaged and do everything i can to "help them succeed." There have been a few instantances where I have had discussions with NIRVC management, but not many.

Now we need to hear from a Marine. Is Stew listening?

While I agree mostly with the praise in public...other in private, sometimes those up the chain of command need to know what is going on beneath them. Its not throwing someone "under the bus" if you think that their boss needs to know what's going on in the hanger. Brett has always thanked me for my input on areas where I have not been satisfied, but you have never seen any of my complaints on this (or any other) forum. Often, going to the top is not necessary (or appropriate). Let the mid level troops do their jobs, and if they can't or won't, then go up the chain of command.

[ButchT]

First, I like NIRVC and their Las Vegas location. I’ve had my ‘22 CS there extensively over the past 11 months. It’s been a challenging time to say the least. Each time I need service, it’s a 600 mile round trip from my home to LV and back. Needless to say, I’m forced to fly home and then back to pick up when repairs are completed. Earlier this year after flying out to LV to pick up, I never left their parking lot and had to fly back home because many things were still not fixed. Including flights and Ubers to and from LV, I’ve spent thousands just to get warranty service with no reimbursement. My coach sat on their lot for 90 days over the summer awaiting parts.

My latest problem was overheating batteries and inverter shutting down. Troubleshooting was done over the phone with their service department and we determined the batteries were bad. ENTEGRA doesn’t warranty the batteries so I paid Relion $3100.00 directly with the expectation that after removing the old batteries, we’d load test, I could get serial numbers, submit to Relion and get reimbursed. All four batteries tested bad. However, Relion will NOT be reimbursing me. Their reason: it’s not the batteries that went bad due to any fault of theirs. It’s the charging system that was likely the cause of the battery failure.

So, having driven my coach all the way home yesterday, I find myself needing to drive it back and drop off at NIRVC LV, AGAIN! I’m seriously considering selling it, trading it or quitting RV’ing all together. I’m not a happy camper at all right now.

I read your post and am thinking I might have similar issues. Not sure what to do at this point. I have multiple trips planned starting next month all the way through June. I’m ready to drive it to any dealership, maybe NIRVC PHOENIX, if they’re more experienced with this problem.

Looking for some advice here. I’m at the end of my patience!

Originally Posted by brobox

Brian, to echo on your comments on NIRVC with


service after the sale, be it from NIRVC, or another dealer.

As many know of the batteries not charging issue, my first call was to Brett Davis for dealer assistance. He immediately had Justin with the Atlanta store on it. Justin and I compared notes as he just had a 22 at the Phoenix location with the same problem and already bad batteries. He contacted Ted Cook from Entegra and immediately got him involved. After numerous calls comparing notes, Justin scheduled a flight in to meet with Firefly to get hands on in this situation as NIRVC know it's going to be a problem for many coaches relying on NIRVC to address the issue. In addition Ted Cook was waiting for me when I arrived at the Nashville location to get a hands on and was on the phone to Firefly and Entegra explaining the issue.


As of yet, I have not heard of any other dealer taking an interest or involvement in a solution. So far it has only been NIRVC that is really practicing "service after the sale". My guess is the other dealers are going to have a stock of L16 batteries on hand, make the sale and profit, and be good with that.



I think once Brett has the NIRVC service app launched, the customer is going to see the communication to the vendors and the replies in real time. I also know of no other dealer that is going to open service communication to 100% transparency when a coach enters their shop for service of any kind.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by ButchT

My latest problem was overheating batteries and inverter shutting down. Troubleshooting was done over the phone with their service department and we determined the batteries were bad. ENTEGRA doesn’t warranty the batteries so I paid Relion $3100.00 directly with the expectation that after removing the old batteries, we’d load test, I could get serial numbers, submit to Relion and get reimbursed. All four batteries tested bad. However, Relion will NOT be reimbursing me. Their reason: it’s not the batteries that went bad due to any fault of theirs. It’s the charging system that was likely the cause of the battery failure.


Looking for some advice here. I’m at the end of my patience!

Butch,
Not to hijack this thread, but this is kind of where it all started. I understand your battery problem and why this post was made and went on so long. https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/rea...rs-590328.html
Most people don't seem to be bothered by the problem until it happens to them as it did you and I. It is a $3,100 out of pocked problem. After starting on this project I can now see why there was little concern from Entegra as it is not out of their pocket as they do not warranty the batteries.

I "heard" that Relion may stop warranting the batteries because of the charging issue, from your post they have in some cases. Way too many earlier failures from lack of charging.
I can honestly say that Justin with NIRVC was the only! dealer that got involved trying to find a solution to the problem. He not only flew in to meet with Firefly, but invested a shunt to be able to read what was going on with the charging and the batteries. His input was priceless in getting to a solution to the problem. Entegra/Firefly were not too concerned with a single owner bringing the problem forward, but when NIRVC came forward with several customer problems with batteries like yours, they finally started listening.

In the 4 months I was involved being the test dummy trying to find the problem, not one other dealer stepped forward. The other dealers sold new batteries, took their profit and never said a word trying to fix the problem for their customers.

That battery issue was 100% Entegra and Firefly. NIRVC is the only dealer nationwide that went to bat for all Entegra newer owners. I saw this personally being on the inside looking out with the help of Ted Cook's involvement and seeing the problem at rallies with other coaches.