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07-04-2020, 10:27 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: AZ
Posts: 212
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Old DEF
Started up the coach and the check engine light came on. Looked up the code (SPN 5742 FMI 4) and found it to be Aftertreatment Diesel Particulate Filter Temperature Sensor Module Voltage Below Normal, Or Shorted To Low Source 4162 (Cummins code). Called local repair shop and was told Cummins would have the software to check it but he then asked me how old the DEF was. I had not be on a trip since December and am in AZ so it is now pretty hot. He told me it was probably bad DEF and to drain it and then put in 5 gallons of fresh (Looked up DEF use by dates on internet) then run it for about 20 miles. I used a long clear plastic tube and my manual pump to draw out the old DEF as the drain plug looked to be to much trouble. Put in 5 gallons of fresh dated DEF. Only drove it about 10 miles and the light went out.
If you have DEF that is stored in the heat (above 90 degrees) it may be good for only three months. Stored at temperatures below 50 degrees it may last for three years but I have been told to get rid of it if it is a year old. I will always use fresh DEF in the future!!
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Ron S.
2014 Aspire 44U
2006 H3 & 2015 GMC Terrain Denali
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07-04-2020, 10:35 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 11,530
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Ron
I have always heard and read that DEF should be good for ~ 1 year (12 months). Please keep us advised of how things go. I have had that engine code twice and once it was a bad/failing DEF pump and once it was something that I am having trouble remembering at this point, but it was not due to old DEF and required engine/sensor work.
Gary
__________________
Gary and Dee, Zowie and Bowie (traveling cat sibs)
2019 Cornerstone 45B, X15-605hp, Imperial, Spartan K3,
2013 Honda CR-V toad, Demco Excali-Bar II,
Demco Baseplate, Demco Toad Light system, 73 de W5FI
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07-04-2020, 11:17 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronlin11
Started up the coach and the check engine light came on. Looked up the code (SPN 5742 FMI 4) and found it to be Aftertreatment Diesel Particulate Filter Temperature Sensor Module Voltage Below Normal, Or Shorted To Low Source 4162 (Cummins code). Called local repair shop and was told Cummins would have the software to check it but he then asked me how old the DEF was. I had not be on a trip since December and am in AZ so it is now pretty hot. He told me it was probably bad DEF and to drain it and then put in 5 gallons of fresh (Looked up DEF use by dates on internet) then run it for about 20 miles. I used a long clear plastic tube and my manual pump to draw out the old DEF as the drain plug looked to be to much trouble. Put in 5 gallons of fresh dated DEF. Only drove it about 10 miles and the light went out.
If you have DEF that is stored in the heat (above 90 degrees) it may be good for only three months. Stored at temperatures below 50 degrees it may last for three years but I have been told to get rid of it if it is a year old. I will always use fresh DEF in the future!!
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My understanding of DEF age is 18 - 24 months if it's stored in a cool place.
My solution is I carry a refractometer and can and do check new DEF and what's in the tank at times. I use SuperTech DEF and it has born on dates on the container and I do store it in a cool place so usually no issues there.
Handy tool, everyone that has DEF storage as much as these coaches have should have one and use it. Only takes a few seconds and would save you a bunch of pain.
__________________
2020 Cornerstone
Quality ? Yeah right.
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07-04-2020, 11:59 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,336
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DEF that is stored in a sealed tank/container out of direct sunlight is going to last quite a long time
Many of us have stored DEF equipment over 9 months many times
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07-04-2020, 01:50 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,569
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Good for the heads up. I just drained my DEF tank yesterday before the trip to NIRVC. My DEF in the tank was over a year old, and stored in hot FL. When I pulled the drain plug, the DEF smell was so strong I couldn't stay under the coach while it drained. I am sure much of the distilled water had evaporated. I am sure the strong concentration of urethra would have plugged the filter or worse.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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07-04-2020, 11:02 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Where ever we park it
Posts: 1,294
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Rule of thumb I guess. If you've sat long enough for your DEF to get old, you've sat too long. "Drive 'em like you stole 'em".- Big Mike
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Robert & Holly - "Fulltimers" 8+ years
Schnauzers Augie Doggie and Monty Puppy
2014 Anthem 44B Rad Copper ----- SOLD
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07-05-2020, 04:38 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Savannah, TN
Posts: 162
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Thanks fqberful for the Refractometer idea.
What reading on the meter do you hope to have?
__________________
Stuart and Susan (Grizabella & Macavity, our imaginary cats)
'12 Entegra Aspire 42DEQ
'94 Jeep Wrangler Toad & '12 Honda Goldwing CSC Trike
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07-05-2020, 06:08 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoggieDaddy
Rule of thumb I guess. If you've sat long enough for your DEF to get old, you've sat too long. "Drive 'em like you stole 'em".- Big Mike
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Trust me, it was not by choice. Sometimes life deals us a card we can't play on. I found out like ronlin11 did, don't let DEF sit to long in hot weather, it can create a side of the road problem. Big Mike is right, these thing are made to be driven, sitting causes problems.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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07-05-2020, 06:52 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu and Sue
Thanks fqberful for the Refractometer idea.
What reading on the meter do you hope to have?
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I expect to see 32.5% +- 1% .. If out of that range it's not so good.
I have never had an issue with DEF out of spec in many years. I store it in a cool place and in Central FL here it does get pretty hot.
Cornerstone uses so much I doubt it will ever get a chance to get stale.
__________________
2020 Cornerstone
Quality ? Yeah right.
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07-05-2020, 07:14 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 4,985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fqberful
My understanding of DEF age is 18 - 24 months if it's stored in a cool place.
My solution is I carry a refractometer and can and do check new DEF and what's in the tank at times. I use SuperTech DEF and it has born on dates on the container and I do store it in a cool place so usually no issues there.
Handy tool, everyone that has DEF storage as much as these coaches have should have one and use it. Only takes a few seconds and would save you a bunch of pain.
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If you have a refactometer, it might be a good idea to occasionally dip some DEF out of your vehicle tank to verify it is not going bad.
Generally DEF should store for a year or more, but there will always be exceptions.
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07-05-2020, 09:27 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brobox
Good for the heads up. I just drained my DEF tank yesterday before the trip to NIRVC. My DEF in the tank was over a year old, and stored in hot FL. When I pulled the drain plug, the DEF smell was so strong I couldn't stay under the coach while it drained. I am sure much of the distilled water had evaporated. I am sure the strong concentration of urethra would have plugged the filter or worse.
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It would have been interesting if you had tested it to see what the concentration showed
Urea is very water soluble and only crystalizes when dried out and in direct contact with the atmosphere
It is simply 32% Urea and pure water, RO permeate ran through a mixed bed poisher
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07-05-2020, 10:26 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SW FL
Posts: 31,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milford 47
It would have been interesting if you had tested it to see what the concentration showed
Urea is very water soluble and only crystalizes when dried out and in direct contact with the atmosphere
It is simply 32% Urea and pure water, RO permeate ran through a mixed bed poisher
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I was wishing I had a refactometer, it's one of those I am always going to get and never do items.
I am only going by how strong the odor was on the DEF being drained. I could not breathe laying under the coach. Took the lid off a new jug, no problem at all with the smell. It's one of those times you go by smell and my DEF was bad smelling to the point it was unbreathable fumes. The DEF in my tank was 2 years old.
__________________
Chuck in SW FL
Digital 2021 Cornerstone "B"
A "Digital" 2019 Cornerstone "B" Traded
A "Classic" 2014 Anthem 42 RBQ---Sold
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07-05-2020, 10:37 AM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,582
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I think there’s too much hype about DEF going bad. I had for several years set in Fl for up to 9 months with a full tank of DEF and never had a problem. Last year I ran the tank down low, end of Sept,, and didn’t refill it until we left Fl end of May. I don’t doubt if left out in the sun in the container it will go bad, but inside of a couple years in the Mh I doubt it will cause a problem. I have checked mine that’s close to a year old, with a refractometer, and it always shows right on 32%.
My pickup says refill DEF tank every 10,000 miles with no reference to time. Maybe they think everyone drives more than 10,000 a year, but 10,000 miles will take me over a year. JMHO
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07-05-2020, 11:16 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,505
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When we were trying to cut the heat down in the engine area to keep the coach cooler in the rear we wrapped the exhaust system with heat shields. By the DEF tank put a lot of extra heat shielding around the DEF tank to keep the heat around tank cooler so that fluid won't be getting 130 to 140 degrees. Cut the temp down by 30 degrees in engine compartment with exhaust and turbo heat shields. Added to extra 12 volt electric fan also so when stopped for the day turn the fans on the pull the heat out of engine compartment for 15 or so minutes.
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Tom/Teri 16031 NKK 117995 FMCA
18 London Aire 4531 Spartan K-3 605
97-04 LA 04-18 Essex 2018 London Aire
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