Community Forums

waterboy10 · 01-26-2016, 02:41 PM

The leak was on the 13 Aspire. So far the 16 has been good.

seeg · 01-26-2016, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HzrdUs

I thought I was going to get lucky! No such luck, 8,400 miles and my radiator was dripping coolant all over the place. Luckily we were on a weekend trip and not far from home. I had to put about a gallon of coolant in to make it home. I took it in to Cummins Pacific in Ventura, Ca. they said I had a cracked weld on the bottom of the radiator. I am waiting now for Spartan to send out a new radiator. I'll let you know if they upgraded anything on it. What a pain!

Hmm, guess it's just a matter of time and mileage. I swear everytime someone on the forum mentions a problem I eventually get it. My 4 new aqua hot pumps should be delivered in a day or so. At least there is a tech w/I a hundred miles. I'd rather drive 3 hours than wrench for 3.5. Of course it would probably take me 10 hours to install them rather than the 3.5 aqua hot is saying it will take to change all 4 pumps.

hawgguy · 01-26-2016, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeg

Of course it would probably take me 10 hours to install them rather than the 3.5 aqua hot is saying it will take to change all 4 pumps.

Plus you have to be a contortionist to get to the engine preheat motor in the back of the unit. As a bonus, you'd get some skinned knuckles no extra charge. You are not missing anything. It is no fun wrestling those pumps out of their mounting. I did it once with the first revision of the GRI pumps, I let the factory arrange for Aquahot to do it for the revision II pumps during my visit to Middlebury.

wmpbauer · 01-26-2016, 09:45 PM

Fleet Charge and Final Charge are not the same......

What's more, you really need to control what a Service Tech is permitted to put in your baby....

Final Charge and distilled water is your best bet......50/50 mix.

Pat Bauer, President
Entegra Coach Owners Association
2013 Aspire DEQ
Ford Edge

wmpbauer · 01-26-2016, 10:33 PM

Spartan apparently has a contract with a radiator supplier who would rather push the edges of the minimum specifications than to over-build the cores. They have certainly been replacing them!

Not to steal the thread, but I believe the industry is ripe for OEM Suppliers who will step up their quality.

Coach manufacturers are somewhat at the mercy of their appliance and systems suppliers.......

I'm not talking one or two year warranties, but rather 7-10 year build warranties at a minimum. Many automotive vehicle products now come with 7-year or longer warranties. Now I look at my rig as a vehicle that I can live in....but my wife doesn't.......she sees it as a house that rolls! Many home builders are doing 10-year warranties!

Somewhere in the middle is the Motor Coach industry....and to be honest, I believe there is a justifiable consumer demand for longer warranty coverage. It is not unreasonable for a manufacturer to demand longer terms from their OEM suppliers.

If a coach manufacturer builds a coach to last at least 20 years, and I use THAT number because the financiers are writing 20 year loans, then there should be a similar expectation on the OEM suppliers for the appliances and systems they put in the coach.

Oh yeah, we were talking radiators......I can't think of a reason why we shouldn't expect a radiator to last10 years!

Can you?.......with reasonable care and maintenance? I have a Toyota that's given me 12 years of service....still gets 44mpg, and only one radiator.

It's not rocket science!

Pat Bauer, President
Entegra Coach Owners Association
2013 Aspire DEQ
Ford Edge

CVO · 01-27-2016, 02:02 AM

Your absolutely correct, Pat. In this day and age with computer aided design and superior materials, quality is expected not assumed.

This radiator issue has got to be costing Spartan a ton of cash. I wouldn't want to be sitting in the meeting that covers warranty costs. I am some what dismayed at Spartan's slow ramp up to admit to the problem and issue a recall vs handling it on a case by case basis. At first it may have seemed to be an isolated issue but now it is across several model years. This becomes an issue when looking at a used coach. It is one of the first questions out of my mouth.

Now for the good part. Yesterday, I reported on a 15 Cornerstone for sale here in Wisconsin in another thread. Of coarse, I asked if the radiator ever leaked. The owner said no it had not, but when he dropped it off for PDI service at Entegra, they changed out the radiator anyway because they knew there were issues with them. Now, either the problem is even bigger than this thread suggests or Entegra is going the extra mile. OR BOTH!

Another issue that I have heard of is tie rod/drag link premature wear on late model Spartans. No, I am not talking about the old rubber boot issue. G and J bring up this issue in one of their videos. This can be a big one because safety is put at risk. My former employer went through this very issue with Volvo semi tractors. Our shop had one of the first failures reported when the drag link fell off one truck rendering it unsteerable.

Luckily, it was crossing the shop parking lot. Having been through one NTHSA investigation on another Volvo issue, stuff hit the fan immediately.

Volvo dragged their feet blaming the supplier. Our shop went proactive with close inspections and started replacing all drag links which, surprise - surprise, were in short supply. Soon thereafter one of the tractors in our sister fleet went off the road near Wausau, WI with... guess what? Yes, a disengaged drag link. A bullet was dodged as the snow filled ditch brought the rig to a safe stop. Being one of the largest food manufacturers in the country who put liability at the forefront, Volvo and the parts supply chain reacted quite fast this time.

My point is, excessive warranty costs and litigation (love it or hate it) tend to automatically raise the bar. Unfortunately, that is a slow process. Consumer pressure and demand works a little faster especially today with the internet. All of you are doing your part.

While a MH is a complicated machine, the bar needs to be set higher. I have to say, that is exactly what Entegra is trying to do.

brobox · 01-27-2016, 06:22 AM

Pat you are 100% right on. The go round I have had with some of the vendors is right on the line of being criminal. Fraud is the term that comes to mind. I am shopping for $35K GM product currently that will have a 5 year warranty. But our 340K MH only has a 2 year warranty. The problems are not with Entegra, it's the vendors and they are not as customer friendly as Entegra. My radiator swap was friendly, but I remember the one in TX on his maiden voyage that was not.

cewgcw · 01-27-2016, 09:41 AM

Pat, I agree with you and many others with the quality of the many vendor items that go into modern motor homes.Entegra does stand behind their product, but it is way beyond time for them to put pressure on their vendors to produce a quality product that stands the test of time and usage, or find vendors that will.

Gasman 2 · 01-27-2016, 09:57 AM

The Allison transmission has a 5 year 200k warranty and I believe Cummins is 5 years also. Milage usually does not come into play with power train warranties with our coaches.

wmpbauer · 01-27-2016, 12:14 PM

On a practical basis, Entegra Coach's move to their two-year warranty is an industry-leading first step in that direction. I've been watching to see how many others would move to match it, and there haven't been many.

As Entegra continues to grow their quality assurance standards, there is little doubt that increased market share is moving in their direction!

Pat Bauer, President
Entegra Coach Owners Association
2013 Aspire DEQ
Ford Edge

hawgguy · 01-27-2016, 06:54 PM

The universe is in balance once again. After a long 5 day separation reunited with my baby with a brand new cooling package, filled with virginal Final Charge. Looks like the good folks at Lubbock Truck Sales did a bang up job (18.2 hrs of labor) and the good folks at Spartan did a good job of paying for it all. I never, ever want to do this again.

Now, to plan the next trip. :-)

Sal Cipres · 01-27-2016, 07:45 PM

As my wife and I continue to research, plan and prepare to purchase an Entegra product (Aspire or Anthem), I must say reading all of these quality and reliability issues combined with what seems to be less than transparent communication from the OEM and 2nd or 3rd tier supply chain, is make us reconsider a purchase from Entegra. I just watched a youtube video from Great Escape video blog of a UK couple who just recently took delivery of a 2016 Anthem where his waste discharge system was leaking due to poor quality and workmanship on the plumbing. This caused a dump of his black tank into the wet (and adjacent) compartment that was an easy fix but took over 5 hours to fix (himself). Understanding that these are somewhat complex machines, I come from the Aerospace industry (engineering) where we would never produce such unreliable designs or workmanship into our vehicles.

Are you all really satisfied with your large investments in this product, or are you wishing you had made a different purchase decision?

Thoughts?

Mr_D · 01-27-2016, 08:01 PM

Here's the Cummins coolant cross reference:

waterboy10 · 01-27-2016, 09:41 PM

Most issues are quite minor and are addressed by Entegra as soon as they are aware of them. On our 16:Anthem they have been few and minor. This is our second Entegra coach and the learning curve was very fast compared to the first one. Essentially we have had 6,600 trouble free miles. The support Entegra offers is the best in the industry. All coaches will have some issue at some time. If that will be a problem then no coach will make you satisfied. When you get down to it they are a rolling earthquake. If there is a third coach it will be a Entegra. Good luck on your decision.