Rettroband redesign/recall

[mahdi]

Originally Posted by Chuck Lasley

For clarification…RettroBands should only be placed on the steer tires. In addition, RettroBands should only be installed or re-installed by an NIRVC location. NIRVC can install replacement tires that are purchased elsewhere, or we can help coordinate the purchase of tires and help in that regard as well.

If your tire requires replacement on the side of the road, the commercial installer should remove the bands (no special tools required). We recommend placing the bands in one of your storage bays. Bring the bands into NIRVC for inspection and reinstallation.

Sorry I meant the steer axle not the drive. I hope by then you will have a center in Pacific Northwest. Thank you for the information.

[Magic-carpet]

Some interesting news on version 2 retrobands..!

https://www.aimclub.org/post/your-of...robands-update

Jeanne

[Chuck Lasley]

Originally Posted by zman62

Has anyone actually seen any videos of retrobands being tested? I haven’t had any luck. Would love to see a 60mph steer blowout.

If you go to www.RettroBand.com you can see a blow-out of a Class A gas motorhome tire. And in fact we just completed a new round of testing in a 2022 Entegra Cornerstone. During this round of testing we changed not only the motorhome type, we also changed the speed at which the charge went off…70mph! Our very own President and CEO felt so confident in the technology that he drove the coach himself with innovator Rob Craig sitting co-pilot. The charge went off, the tire blew and RettroBand performed flawlessly! We are working on the video now to be able share with everyone.

[brobox]

Thanks Jeanne, excellent report.

[BrettDavis]

Originally Posted by Chuck Lasley

If you go to www.RettroBand.com you can see a blow-out of a Class A gas motorhome tire. And in fact we just completed a new round of testing in a 2022 Entegra Cornerstone. During this round of testing we changed not only the motorhome type, we also changed the speed at which the charge went off…70mph! Our very own President and CEO felt so confident in the technology that he drove the coach himself with innovator Rob Craig sitting co-pilot. The charge went off, the tire blew and RettroBand performed flawlessly! We are working on the video now to be able share with everyone.

Chuck is correct!

The test went GREAT!!! Frankly, having never personally experienced a front tire blowout, it went so much better than I was expecting. We (I) "wanted to put our money where our mouth was", because we used a brand new 2022 Cornerstone D. In fact, it still had the protective tape on all the chrome. I set the Cruise Control at 70mph with my foot nowhere near the brake or the accelerator. I never touched either of them. We wanted to see how RettroBand handled for the average guy rolling down the highway deep in thought when a catastrophic blowout occurs. Yes, I clearly knew we were going to blow the tire out, but the Cruise Control didn’t. And, when the tire blew... and yes, it was a catastrophic blowout, as the charge blew 1/4 of the tire completely away. However, I didn’t feel a thing on the steering wheel. And, I’m confident the Go-Pro camera focused on my hands will reflect that.

Good news! Zero damage to the wheel, fender, or it’s paint. In fact, the wheel never came in contact with the highway.

FWIW, we will finish shooting the video on 7/26/22, then after our videographer finishes his editing, we’ll get it posted. In addition to all the footage we got from different angles, both inside and outside of the coach, I would like to see this video be a bit more educational when discussing the various types of run-flat devices, and the functions they were designed for.

Onward,
Brett

[brobox]

Thanks Brett. Really looking forward to the video. What a great product that keeps passing all the test including those of coach owners in actual highway conditions.

[Gary.Jones]

I was reading through the information on Retroband yesterday and was surprised to read about the following issue

Retroband is saying that they will not routinely agree to install $5,000 worth of Retrobands on my 2019 Cornerstone Michelin 365 steer tires. Their current literature says that they will routinely install Retrobands in tires that are three years or less in age and will think about installing them on Michelin that are up to four years old, but it’s not a given.

Since my 2019 Cornerstone actually came off the assembly line May 2018 and although I don’t know the exact “born on” date as I write this, I’m pretty sure that my tires were manufactured in January 2018 or slightly earlier, which means that my tires on my 2019 Cornerstone are about 4 3/4 years old. The literature says that Retroband is concerned that the bead of my tires has degraded enough that they don’t recommend remounting the tires to install the Retrobands. Really??

WOW, my Michelins look like the day I bought the coach. No noticeable wear and tear. Michelin says that I should consider replacing my tires at about 7 years when they “age ou”t. Wonder what Retroband is so worried about?

Guess I won’t be buying any

Gary

[BrettDavis]

Originally Posted by BrettDavis

Chuck is correct!

The test went GREAT!!! Frankly, having never personally experienced a front tire blowout, it went so much better than I was expecting. We (I) "wanted to put our money where our mouth was", because we used a brand new 2022 Cornerstone D. In fact, it still had the protective tape on all the chrome. I set the Cruise Control at 70mph with my foot nowhere near the brake or the accelerator. I never touched either of them. We wanted to see how RettroBand handled for the average guy rolling down the highway deep in thought when a catastrophic blowout occurs. Yes, I clearly knew we were going to blow the tire out, but the Cruise Control didn’t. And, when the tire blew... and yes, it was a catastrophic blowout, as the charge blew 1/4 of the tire completely away. However, I didn’t feel a thing on the steering wheel. And, I’m confident the Go-Pro camera focused on my hands will reflect that.

Good news! Zero damage to the wheel, fender, or it’s paint. In fact, the wheel never came in contact with the highway.

FWIW, we will finish shooting the video on 7/26/22, then after our videographer finishes his editing, we’ll get it posted. In addition to all the footage we got from different angles, both inside and outside of the coach, I would like to see this video be a bit more educational when discussing the various types of run-flat devices, and the functions they were designed for.

Onward,
Brett

Out of an abundance of caution I feel the need to append my earlier post. While we’ve had a number of RettroBand customers who have experienced blowouts (including myself now), and they have experienced no damage to their coaches. However, I would really hate for anyone reading my posts to think I am representing that Rettroband will prevent any damage to your coach after a blowout. Making such an outrageous claim would place squarely among the most sleaziest of used car salesmen. The reality is no two blowouts are the same. Every blowout writes its own story.

What I do believe, and what I have now personally experienced is; Rettroband allows you to maintain control of your coach after a catastrophic blowout, and the ability to drive to a safe place.

Putting down my shovel,
Brett

[LWBAZ]

Originally Posted by BrettDavis

Out of an abundance of caution I feel the need to append my earlier post. While we’ve had a number of RettroBand customers who have experienced blowouts (including myself now), and they have experienced no damage to their coaches. However, I would really hate for anyone reading my posts to think I am representing that Rettroband will prevent any damage to your coach after a blowout. Making such an outrageous claim would place squarely among the most sleaziest of used car salesmen. The reality is no two blowouts are the same. Every blowout writes its own story.

What I do believe, and what I have now personally experienced is; Rettroband allows you to maintain control of your coach after a catastrophic blowout, and the ability to drive to a safe place.

Putting down my shovel,
Brett

Good points Brett, especially with regard to no two blowouts being the same and every blowout writing its own story.

Back before Rettrobands were ever conceived, Amy & I had a right front tire failure at highway speed on our 2010 Tiffin Allegro Bus. Anyone interested can read all about it here:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/int...ml#post4713949

In that instance the tire failure was a result of running over a sharp piece of angle iron in the travel lane. The failure occurred in two phases. In phase one the tire immediately lost air and went down, pulling the coach hard to the right. No damage to the motorhome occurred as a result of that. But some number of seconds later (phase two) the tire came apart and started flailing around in the wheel well, causing considerable damage to metal, fiberglass, wiring and the fuel tank filler hose.

I’m confident a Rettroband would have made the coach significantly easier to control during both phases. Whether it would have prevented the phase two damage is hard to say. What seems certain is that if a tire failure occurs the driver and any passengers are going to be better off with Rettrobands in place than they’d be without them.

And as noted in the post linked above, another significant advantage of Rettrobands is being able to drive a short distance to a safe haven, rather than having to spend hours on the narrow shoulder of a busy highway as we had to do. That situation was scary enough that I actually considered driving the coach to the next exit several miles ahead. What persuaded me not to was the very real possibility that the aluminum wheel would have been severely damaged if not destroyed in the process.

[BrettDavis]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

I was reading through the information on Retroband yesterday and was surprised to read about the following issue



Retroband is saying that they will not routinely agree to install $5,000 worth of Retrobands on my 2019 Cornerstone Michelin 365 steer tires. Their current literature says that they will routinely install Retrobands in tires that are three years or less in age and will think about installing them on Michelin that are up to four years old, but it’s not a given.



Since my 2019 Cornerstone actually came off the assembly line May 2018 and although I don’t know the exact “born on” date as I write this, I’m pretty sure that my tires were manufactured in January 2018 or slightly earlier, which means that my tires on my 2019 Cornerstone are about 4 3/4 years old. The literature says that Retroband is concerned that the bead of my tires has degraded enough that they don’t recommend remounting the tires to install the Retrobands. Really??



WOW, my Michelins look like the day I bought the coach. No noticeable wear and tear. Michelin says that I should consider replacing my tires at about 7 years when they “age ou”t. Wonder what Retroband is so worried about?



Guess I won’t be buying any



Gary

Gary, once again you are correct my friend!

We do inspect all tires over 3 years old, and won’t install RettroBands on any tires older than 4 years. And, this isn’t because the age of the tire impacts RettroBand’s performance in any way.

Gary, please allow me to explain the reasoning behind our policy. The concept of Rettroband started almost seven years ago with a sincere desire to solve the problem of front end blowouts on coaches. It’s always been my experience in business, that if you can solve a problem the profits will follow, and not the other way around. After years of numerous designs, endless engineering, ongoing fabrication, and testing, I’ve honestly lost track of how many iterations we’ve gone through. I do know we have been to the test track 5 different times, with each of those test days costing us $50,000 plus.

Then, Hallelujah! We finally came to market with Rettroband Version 1.0 only to discover a year later we had an issue where installers weren’t following our installation instructions. As I’ve mention on this Forum before, “I’d rather sleep well than eat well.” So, after 6 installation failures we redesigned the product in an attempt to “idiot proof” the installation. And then, with over 1,100 RettroBands in the field, WE genuinely wanted to replace every Version 1.0 RettroBand in the field free of charge, because we had absolutely no way to insure whether the next installer would follow our installation instructions or not. This was a very expensive price to pay in order to “sleep well,” but worth every penny of it to me.

Then, when we could finally see a light at the end of the tunnel, our shipping costs and raw materials skyrocketed! However, we maintained our prices, because we felt our profit margins would return once we moved production to the United States. Which, we expect to be doing before the end of this year.

So, all that brings me to why we won’t put Rettrobands on tires older than 4 years. It’s just this simple. In more cases than not the bead has become too brittle, and we have grown tired of replacing 4 year old tires (which realistically have a 5 year life) for free because the bead tore. For me the customer’s perception is my reality. We’ll never convince them it wasn’t our fault the bead on their tore due to its age, so we grin and bear it, and replace their 4 year old tires for free. Remember, not everyone stores, inflates, drives, or maintains their tires the same way. Will Rogers famously said “it’s not the return on my money as much as it is the return of my money.” And, that’s where we are today. At this point Rob and I would like to start seeing the return of some of our money. We’re confident profits will eventually come, because we feel we’ve now solved a very serious problem. But, tearing beads on old tires, and then replacing them with new ones for free, way more than takes all our profit margin out of the transaction, and pushes the return of our capital even farther down the road. I’m not looking for any sympathy here, I’m merely stating the facts which led to our policy.

Now to a very controversial issue, and everyone has their own opinions, so let the debate begin. Even though Michelin warrants their tires for 7 years, we (NIRVC) have always advised replacing tires at 5 years. And, for 37 years I have always replaced the tires on my coaches every 5 years.

This Michelin tire which blew last week at 70mph was 4 years old. Luckily, they had RettroBand.

Blowout with Rettrobands installed
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f103/blowout-with-rettrobands-installed-586127-post6235468.html

The inside sidewall blowout in this post was on a 4 year old Michelin tire. Luckily, they had RettroBands because the King Aire is a very heavy coach. I should also point out his passenger side front tire had just blown a few months earlier.

Rettroband Saved the Day
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/rettroband-saved-the-day-546308.html#post5839835

Bottom line, we’ve seen countless blowouts on steer tires well before their 7 year warranty. Lest anyone thinks I’m trying to sell tires… we don’t sell tires! I’ve never wanted our customers feeling like we were telling them to replace their tires just so we could sell them some new tires. We advise our customers to replace their tires, because we believe their tires have become unsafe.

Lastly, I don’t want anyone thinking RettroBands are merely a safeguard against old tires. Alligators, road debris of all manner, or a piece of angle iron like Larry experienced, can cause a blowout on a brand new tire just as quickly as it will on a 7 year old tire, and that’s the problem, and the risk RettroBand solved.

Gary, you and Dee are dear friends, and my post is intended solely to address the reasoning behind our policy, for all those who are reading, but don’t know National Indoor RV Centers, Rettroband, or myself as well as you do. However, I’m going to give you a call, and make you eat the words of the last sentence of your post, and I promise I will never, ever, tell a soul my friend.

Onward,
Brett

[GeezerViz]

Not everyone riding on V1 Rettroband has been able to get theirs replaced yet. Every time I go into the Vegas location, (which has been several times in the last couple years) I ask if my size is available yet. No joy so far (295s). The good news is mine must have been torqued correctly because I've had no issues and I replaced my steer tires at the Vegas location late last year, so they must have torqued them correctly again.

[brobox]

Gary,

To pass on a personal experience of what Brett is saying: My Travel Supreme when the Michelin XZA's were 7 year old, it started riding like a square wheel lumber wagon. I replaced the tires and the great Travel Supreme ride returned. The tires looked brand new, kept in the same hanger as today, but the sidewalls had lost all of the flex. Part of the sidewall is the bead, if the bead had been broken, with no flex remaining in the rubber, there would have been one or two tires that would have had slow leaks, possibly more contributing to the possibility of a blowout. I can see what Brett is saying using a machine to dismount the tires, they would easily tear with the flex in the bead gone.

For the described reason is one of the reason I am not brand loyal when the subject of tires come up.

[RVFunlovers]

Brett, that took some courage to be the test driver yourself. I would have been nervous for sure. Maybe even a little scared.

And thanks for the clarity that you were not saying having Rettrobands means you will not have any coach damage if you have a front tire blowout. I think we all know that but good to be clear.

No one wants a blow out especially on the front. And no one wants damage if they have a blow out. But the real primary concern is safety. Safety of the people in the coach and in the path of an out of control coach.

I went with the Rettrobands. I hope I never need them. I hope they are like any other system we spend money on and never want to need or never want to look back and say that was the best money I ever invested. An alarm system, a fire extinguisher, a smoke detector, insurance, warranties, a health physical, etc…

Just because I have Rettrobands does not mean I am not real careful with my tires, tire pressure, tire inspections, TMPS, tire age, etc….

I look forward to the video.

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by BrettDavis

Chuck is correct!

The test went GREAT!!! Frankly, having never personally experienced a front tire blowout, it went so much better than I was expecting. We (I) "wanted to put our money where our mouth was", because we used a brand new 2022 Cornerstone D. In fact, it still had the protective tape on all the chrome. I set the Cruise Control at 70mph with my foot nowhere near the brake or the accelerator. I never touched either of them. We wanted to see how RettroBand handled for the average guy rolling down the highway deep in thought when a catastrophic blowout occurs. Yes, I clearly knew we were going to blow the tire out, but the Cruise Control didn’t. And, when the tire blew... and yes, it was a catastrophic blowout, as the charge blew 1/4 of the tire completely away. However, I didn’t feel a thing on the steering wheel. And, I’m confident the Go-Pro camera focused on my hands will reflect that.

Good news! Zero damage to the wheel, fender, or it’s paint. In fact, the wheel never came in contact with the highway.

FWIW, we will finish shooting the video on 7/26/22, then after our videographer finishes his editing, we’ll get it posted. In addition to all the footage we got from different angles, both inside and outside of the coach, I would like to see this video be a bit more educational when discussing the various types of run-flat devices, and the functions they were designed for.

Onward,
Brett

Thanks for the update and looking forward to seeing the video. Love that you and Rob put your butts where your mouths are, and drove the coach for the new test.

Looking forward to finally getting mine installed next month in Nashville. While there are lots of things that can go wrong with a class A (break down, slide failures, etc., etc.), I think a high speed blowout, especially on curvy, rural roads, is the most concerning.

I also applaud you and others from NIRVC being active on IR2. A lot of companies don't do it, or maybe make a foray into participating in a community, and then decide it's more trouble than it's worth.