Shocks

[sdesha]

Happy 4th of July,

I have seen some posts and comments on Koni shocks. To be honest I am not sure what type of shocks are on this coach, may still be the shocks from the factory.

What is the best shock to have installed on the CS?

Thank you

Suzzanne

[Gary.Jones]

Suzanne

Your shocks if they are from the factory are undoubtedly Bilsteins. What is actually on your coach depends on the year and model. They differ. Smaller shocks are on the Aspire and Insignias, and larger shocks are on the Anthem and the Cornerstone.

There is another thread on this forum right now that is debating shocks and satisfaction. Look for it.

Gary

[BCam]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

There is another thread on this forum right now that is debating shocks and satisfaction. Look for it.

Gary

And be prepared to be deluged with conflicting opinions (not facts) that will leave your head spinning. Unless your existing shocks are worn out, they're probably just fine.

[Gary.Jones]

Amen

[Victory Blue]

Originally Posted by BCam

And be prepared to be deluged with conflicting opinions (not facts) that will leave your head spinning. Unless your existing shocks are worn out, they're probably just fine.

Not accurate or factual or helpful.

The facts are that up until 2017 the Anthem and Cornerstone were under-shocked with 46 mm shocks. In 2017 the Anthem and Cornerstone got 60mm shocks. The 60s are almost 70% larger in cross sectional area than the 46s and are finally the proper size to adequately dampen the oscillations for the coach weights involved.

There is enough anecdotal information from Entegra coach owners, not SOB owners, to conclude that 46mm shocks were, and continue to be, too small on 45’ Entegra coaches.

[Victory Blue]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

Amen

See above.

[Gary.Jones]

Bill

I've got 60s and am not much more impressed with them being fantastic or the right shock for this coach than I was on the Anthem. I have had some porpoising that was truly spectacular and I have had everything checked. Now, I am still not convinced that Koni or any other shock is going to make this coach as smooth as silk over some of the bridge transitions. I KNOW that this Cornerstone porpoises more than my Anthem did, significantly more, and eventually something is gonna have to be considered, but simply saying that the Konis or bigger Bilsteins are the answer to all problems is just not accurate either.

My Amen above, I will stand behind.... everyone has an opinion... you can pays your money and takes your chances, and then live with it, but there is no overriding "fact" here. If you have access to the laboratory tested and quantified data, I'd love to see it. IT is fact that the 60s are bigger than the 48s but that is where fact ends.


Gary

[Victory Blue]

Originally Posted by Gary.Jones

Bill

I've got 60s and am not much more impressed with them being fantastic or the right shock for this coach than I was on the Anthem. I have had some porpoising that was truly spectacular and I have had everything checked. Now, I am still not convinced that Koni or any other shock is going to make this coach as smooth as silk over some of the bridge transitions. I KNOW that this Cornerstone porpoises more than my Anthem did, significantly more, and eventually something is gonna have to be considered, but simply saying that the Bilsteins are the answer to all problems is just not accurate either.

My Amen above, I will stand behind.... everyone has an opinion... you can pays your money and takes your pick, and then live with it, but there is no overriding fact here.


Gary

This isn’t about shock brand, it’s about shock size; I’m not touting Bilsteins. I’d bet that if you had the previously installed 46mm shocks on your CS you’d be really unhappy. Bigger shocks dampen more and so will eliminate more porpoising; fact, not opinion. It’s very likely that a different shock brand of the same size will dampen more or less depending on how it’s built. Opinions only come in to play when different people try to decide what constitutes excessive porpoising.

My coach may porpoise 2 or 3 times in very a particular set of circumstances but to me it’s not an issue because I understand the physics and it happens very infrequently. In the same situation others may claim excessive porpoising even though it’s not. Dampening the oscillations too much in order to eliminate all porpoising will give you something that literally rides like a truck which I, for one, don’t want.

[Flanz]

Originally Posted by Victory Blue

This isn’t about shock brand, it’s about shock size; I’m not touting Bilsteins. I’d bet that if you had the previously installed 46mm shocks on your CS you’d be really unhappy. Bigger shocks dampen more and so will eliminate more porpoising; fact, not opinion. It’s very likely that a different shock brand of the same size will dampen more or less depending on how it’s built. Opinions only come in to play when different people try to decide what constitutes excessive porpoising.

My coach may porpoise 2 or 3 times in very a particular set of circumstances but to me it’s not an issue because I understand the physics and it happens very infrequently. In the same situation others may claim excessive porpoising even though it’s not. Dampening the oscillations too much in order to eliminate all porpoising will give you something that literally rides like a truck which I, for one, don’t want.

AMEN!!

And I’d like to also add, that most people do not inflate their tires properly, for the weight they carry, as well as have the ride height set correctly. All of the above will cause ride problems that most people are not happy with.

[brobox]

Gary, the fact is in the ride, not what some engineers says on paper. My experience with the 46 MM Bilsteins is that coach was almost dangerous to drive, but the engineers said it was OK. I changed to Koni's an could drive that coach with 2 fingers, but you said in another post the the engineers laughed at us. Well all I can say is they have no practical experience.


Suzanne, if your shocks are blue and yellow in color they are the factory Bilsteins. The 14's were way under shocked, just from my 14 ownership experience. This company can give you the answer of the correct Konis for your coach. They are extremely knowledgeable and about the best prices. https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Koni...eyco-IFS-Front

[Gary.Jones]

Chuck

You must know that I am not defending the engineers very strongly and I did not say they laughed at anyone... what I said was that they shook their head sideways and smiled when I said people felt that Konis would resolve their ride problems. There is a difference.

And my whole point in the last post is that there are darn few facts on this whole issue, and no laboratory or real life controlled data on comparisons upon which to make a well reasoned decision (that I have ever heard about). So, one is left with the decision to spend the money and give it a try and live with the results if you are dissatisfied. But I've seen nothing that argues that the result will lead to satisfaction... it has for some and it hasn't for others (which is what the SOB above said).

And you must know that I am a firm believer that no-one should be permitted to make any substantive decision about almost any issue with a coach design if they are not forced to use a coach, every year, and put a couple thousand miles on it, before they go ahead with a design change or improvement. That includes Ollie Chairs, dinette chairs, lighting fixtures, ACC and CMS (sorry, I couldn't resist.... ), shocks, passive tags, etc etc.

No one would let me design an aircraft without the proper engineering degree AND 15 years of experience AND test pilots to evaluate the change and usually the design person is sitting in the airplane at the time the test pilot is evaluating so he/she has skin in the game (but probably not the first flight .. ) and hundreds of hours of evaluation flights. Doesn't happen in the motorcoach industry. So, I buy the engineer's opinion in some cases and ignore it in others.

Gary

[LVJ58]

I replaced the factory OEM shocks on my 2000 coach on the Ford F53 chassis with Koni shocks installing Koni adjustable shocks on the rear suspension as the FSD's weren't available at the time. Later I installed the Koni FSD shocks on the front suspension. I'm very satisfied with the ride and handling. I'm seriously considering replacing the adjustable rear shocks with the FSD's.

Good luck with your choice of shocks and safe travels......

[46490]

Originally Posted by Victory Blue

This isn’t about shock brand, it’s about shock size; I’m not touting Bilsteins. I’d bet that if you had the previously installed 46mm shocks on your CS you’d be really unhappy. Bigger shocks dampen more and so will eliminate more porpoising; fact, not opinion. It’s very likely that a different shock brand of the same size will dampen more or less depending on how it’s built. Opinions only come in to play when different people try to decide what constitutes excessive porpoising.

My coach may porpoise 2 or 3 times in very a particular set of circumstances but to me it’s not an issue because I understand the physics and it happens very infrequently. In the same situation others may claim excessive porpoising even though it’s not. Dampening the oscillations too much in order to eliminate all porpoising will give you something that literally rides like a truck which I, for one, don’t want.

Will the new air ride system (Valid) for the 2020 CS help with the porpoising?

[brobox]

Originally Posted by 46490

Will the new air ride system (Valid) for the 2020 CS help with the porpoising?

The 20's have the new larger shocks which are a big help. There is no way anyone can tell about the proposing until a coach is loaded for travel, weighed and tires air to the proper weight.. The Valid system is brand new, so not many can tell if it will help or not. I had my air governor set at 140 psi on delivery and I am noticing very little, if any porpoising.